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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dannyalcatraz" data-source="post: 5498043" data-attributes="member: 19675">That's your opinion; obviously, others disagree.And designers more skilled than either of us have also, by definition, found this NOT to be a problem. Haven't really gone looking through my 3.X stuff, but I wouldn't be surprised to find "commoners" with Fighter levels.  However, while I have supplements galore, I don't have much in the way of 3.X adventures, so I'll have to leave that to someone else. 4Ed does make PCs more special, that is true.Just because someone can kick your ass fresh out of training doesn't mean they'll always be able to kick your ass if you continue to train.In addition, it makes perfect sense for someone in a strife-ridden area to have some skill at fighting, maybe even a lot.  Look at Israel.  By law, every Israeli citizen (except Arabs) over 18 must serve in the military- 3 years for men, 2 for women, longer if you become some kind of specialist, like a sniper (like Dr. Ruth).  IOW, the entire adult population of Israel has gone through basic training and some specialization.  In D&D terms, that means every doggone Israeli is at least F1 in 1ED/2Ed terms.To you, but again, others may not feel as you do.  I certainly don't.  I didn't have a problem with that from either side of the DMs screen.That wasn't exactly from the "early days"- that was from the omnibus version of "Queen of the Demonweb."Besides, it most certainly DOES matter when people are using absolutes describing the way D&D "never" or "always" handled NPCs.Sure, if you want to change things to fit your vision of how the game should be run.Your milage obviously varied.But the fact remains that they- "peasants" and "townsfolk" WERE F1s, so saying D&D didn't have commoners with PC class levels is simply untrue.  And it follows from that that saying the assumption of heroism starts at Level 1 and is hardwired into the game is also untrue. In a game where the best equipped fighter in the party may lack 2 of the three of those at the same level because he can't afford it- and neither can the party as a whole- I think "serious gear" is exactly the phrase I'd use.  It also indicates that "Mr. Fantasy Hero" still has some growing to do before he can start patting himself on the back.At level one, he's still just an Ordinary Joe in terms of combat capability.  And if he thinks otherwise, he may find himself to be a Dead Joe.No- as I pointed out, they actually have rules for making "laborers" without class levels as well.  According to the rules of AD&D, the categories of "laborer" and "fighter" are not mutually exclusive.Now you're putting the horse before the cart.  You're superimposing your view of the game over the actual rules.They didn't. She has a quick paragraph that notes she's a F1.If this is so, how do you reconcile this with protagonists who actually DO get caught off guard.  Even Bats spent time bound by ropes, after all.In your worldview, perhaps.  Not to me.That Joe Thug has a level or 2 in a PC class isn't particularly surprising- it means he's got skill.  Wouldn't you expect even a beginning legbreaker or assassin for the guild might have some skills besides plowing?  It just makes it the sweeter when he goes down.  Even 4Ed recognizes this in the sense that minions are glass cannons.  If you don't take them down, they WILL kick your ass.PLEASE.  Samwise was a gardner before he joined the Company of the Ring.He's heroic because he walked right out of the Shire with virtually nothing and survived the same tests as mighty wizards and warriors.  And what would have happened if he hadn't?  While he's a supporting character in many ways, in others, he's not just a support, he's the spine.Not bad for a hobbit without so much as a +1 pruning shear for most of the story...</blockquote>

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