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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5499240" data-attributes="member: 22779">Peter Parker is a teenage geek on the day before he gets bitten by a radioactive spider.&nbsp; The day after, he's Spider-man.How is Spider-man superhuman but Jeanne D'Arc not?That's a bit of a strawman though.&nbsp; Bob the turnip farmer IS NOT A 1st level fighter.&nbsp; That's right there, in black and white, in the rules.&nbsp; We're not making this up.&nbsp; This isn't some way out there reinterpretation of the rules.&nbsp; It's RIGHT FREAKING THERE.&nbsp; Bob the Turnip Farmer is a 0 level normal human or a 1st level commoner.&nbsp; By the time Bob the Turnip Farmer is a 1st level fighter, he hasn't been a turnip farmer for some time.&nbsp; AND once he becomes that 1st level fighter, he's now capable of things that none of his peers are capable of.&nbsp; He is quantitatively superhuman at this point.&nbsp; He can survive damage that will outright kill any of his peers.&nbsp; He has knowledge that none of his peers, no matter how much they train, can ever have (a commoner can practice with a sword 15 hours a day for ten years and he still can't specialize in that weapon until such time as he STOPS being a commoner and STARTS being a fighter).&nbsp; Any leveled character, whether PC or NPC, by virtue of HAVING LEVELS IN PC CLASSES, is no longer a normal human.&nbsp; That character is quatifiably (and I keep repeating that because it's important - you can actually, in game terms, MEASURE how much better that character is) better than any normal human as defined by the system in question.The woodcutter in Little Red Riding Hood could easily be modeled by a 3e commoner class - he only uses 1 weapon, uses no armor and only uses a single skill to skin a wolf.&nbsp; Now, if the woodcutter then takes up arms and armor, starts using a bow and leads a pack of desperate men against the Sherrif, he stops being a commoner and now he's a PC class.Unless you want to claim that the greatest bowman ever (Robin Hood of legend (not history)) is just a normal human.&nbsp; Which brings it back around to why this conversation can't go forward.Spider man is a superhuman.&nbsp; He is capable of superhuman things.&nbsp; But, apparently Batman is just a normal guy, despite being capable of superhuman things.&nbsp; Jeanne D'arc is just a normal human, despite being chosen by God and having all her strength flow from that.&nbsp; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/worried.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":-S" title="Uhm&nbsp; &nbsp; :-S" data-shortname=":-S" />And around and around we go.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5499240, member: 22779"] Peter Parker is a teenage geek on the day before he gets bitten by a radioactive spider. The day after, he's Spider-man. How is Spider-man superhuman but Jeanne D'Arc not? That's a bit of a strawman though. Bob the turnip farmer IS NOT A 1st level fighter. That's right there, in black and white, in the rules. We're not making this up. This isn't some way out there reinterpretation of the rules. It's RIGHT FREAKING THERE. Bob the Turnip Farmer is a 0 level normal human or a 1st level commoner. By the time Bob the Turnip Farmer is a 1st level fighter, he hasn't been a turnip farmer for some time. AND once he becomes that 1st level fighter, he's now capable of things that none of his peers are capable of. He is quantitatively superhuman at this point. He can survive damage that will outright kill any of his peers. He has knowledge that none of his peers, no matter how much they train, can ever have (a commoner can practice with a sword 15 hours a day for ten years and he still can't specialize in that weapon until such time as he STOPS being a commoner and STARTS being a fighter). Any leveled character, whether PC or NPC, by virtue of HAVING LEVELS IN PC CLASSES, is no longer a normal human. That character is quatifiably (and I keep repeating that because it's important - you can actually, in game terms, MEASURE how much better that character is) better than any normal human [u]as defined by the system in question[/u]. The woodcutter in Little Red Riding Hood could easily be modeled by a 3e commoner class - he only uses 1 weapon, uses no armor and only uses a single skill to skin a wolf. Now, if the woodcutter then takes up arms and armor, starts using a bow and leads a pack of desperate men against the Sherrif, he stops being a commoner and now he's a PC class. Unless you want to claim that the greatest bowman ever (Robin Hood of legend (not history)) is just a normal human. Which brings it back around to why this conversation can't go forward. Spider man is a superhuman. He is capable of superhuman things. But, apparently Batman is just a normal guy, despite being capable of superhuman things. Jeanne D'arc is just a normal human, despite being chosen by God and having all her strength flow from that. :-S And around and around we go. [/QUOTE]

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