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How is the Wizard vs Warrior Balance Problem Handled in Fantasy Literature?
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 5500632" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Because D&D spellcasters rival the spellcasters in fantasy literature.</p><p></p><p>D&D is a game of fantasy heroism -- it's got a genre. Part of what D&D is selling is "You get to pretend to be a fantasy hero!"</p><p></p><p>If it's only doing that for spellcasters, then we have a problem. There's a whole swath of fantasy heroes from Batman to James Bond to Odysseus that aren't getting the support one might expect from a game of heroic fantasy.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, by the time 3e rolls around, turnip farmers (and town guards and militia members) have Str 10 Dex 10 Con 10 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 10, and before that they don't even have stats for the most part, after that their stats are fairly meaningless to their combat ability, but that's not the thrust of the counterpoint.</p><p></p><p>The thrust of the counterpoint is that the <strong>functional</strong> difference between Batman and Commissioner Gordon or some jarhead marine isn't a <em>choice</em>, it is the quality of being a fantasy hero. </p><p></p><p>It may be fluffed away as a choice in the background story information, but by the time the story opens, they're already different.</p><p></p><p>By the time the first d20 is rolled, the fighter is already different from the turnip farmer.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A PC isn't just some grunt trooper. They are a fantasy hero. Their kind has not been seen for years, will not be seen easily again, and will be spoken of in legends, simply by virtue of them being a fantasy hero. </p><p></p><p>The difference between Random Soldier Boy and a fantasy hero is as immense as the gulf between a Gotham City five-oh, and Batman. And it needs to be that way from the start if you're interesting in playing a fantasy hero. It certainly is that way from the start if you're a wizard or a cleric. The local priest cannot close wounds; the local potion-witch cannot will people to feel pain. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If he's not already different by the time he sets out, he is going to be eaten by that dragon, killed by that orc, and mutilated in his sleep by that goblin. That is the fate of normal soldiers, of town guards, of beet farmers, of Gotham City Donut Jockeys, of trigger-happy NPCs who think they're going off to become the next Big Hero only to be impaled on the first kobold's spear as the battle begins. </p><p></p><p>That's part of what makes the heroic fantasy genre. When the dragon's breath incinerates everyone else in the world, it requires a <em>hero</em> to stand against it. When the Joker is terrorizing Gotham, it requires a <em>hero</em> to stand against him. People who are just beet farmers and beat cops get killed, in massive waves. That's why a hero is needed. Heroes don't get killed by dragons, beet farmers do.</p><p></p><p>So D&D makes beet farmers, militia members, marines, cops, and all those people who will be unable to stop the Great Evil statless (DM fiat can kill them!) or low-level Commoners or Warriors (Maybe they'll get lucky and save and survive, due to their extensive combat training but probably not...). Heroes will probably survive. Because they are the heroes. </p><p></p><p>Early D&D varied in this, because early D&D largely didn't really try to emulate a genre, it just tried to give you interesting things to put in a dungeon, to kill PC's in droves. </p><p></p><p>Of course, early D&D had a bigger problem with the wizard vs. warrior balance, too. </p><p></p><p>These problems are not unrelated, I think. If the only difference between a beat cop and Batman is that Batman went off to fight the Joker and got lucky enough to survive, Batman could not fight Superman, or fight other supervillains on a regular basis. </p><p></p><p>The difference is that the Joker gets to automatically kill beat cops. But Batman, favored by luck, enhanced by superheroic, godlike levels of tech, practice, and skill....Batman has a good chance to survive. The Dragon gets to kill as many beet farmers as they want, but the Fighter -- the Fighter has a good chance to survive.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 5500632, member: 2067"] Because D&D spellcasters rival the spellcasters in fantasy literature. D&D is a game of fantasy heroism -- it's got a genre. Part of what D&D is selling is "You get to pretend to be a fantasy hero!" If it's only doing that for spellcasters, then we have a problem. There's a whole swath of fantasy heroes from Batman to James Bond to Odysseus that aren't getting the support one might expect from a game of heroic fantasy. Well, by the time 3e rolls around, turnip farmers (and town guards and militia members) have Str 10 Dex 10 Con 10 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 10, and before that they don't even have stats for the most part, after that their stats are fairly meaningless to their combat ability, but that's not the thrust of the counterpoint. The thrust of the counterpoint is that the [b]functional[/b] difference between Batman and Commissioner Gordon or some jarhead marine isn't a [I]choice[/I], it is the quality of being a fantasy hero. It may be fluffed away as a choice in the background story information, but by the time the story opens, they're already different. By the time the first d20 is rolled, the fighter is already different from the turnip farmer. A PC isn't just some grunt trooper. They are a fantasy hero. Their kind has not been seen for years, will not be seen easily again, and will be spoken of in legends, simply by virtue of them being a fantasy hero. The difference between Random Soldier Boy and a fantasy hero is as immense as the gulf between a Gotham City five-oh, and Batman. And it needs to be that way from the start if you're interesting in playing a fantasy hero. It certainly is that way from the start if you're a wizard or a cleric. The local priest cannot close wounds; the local potion-witch cannot will people to feel pain. If he's not already different by the time he sets out, he is going to be eaten by that dragon, killed by that orc, and mutilated in his sleep by that goblin. That is the fate of normal soldiers, of town guards, of beet farmers, of Gotham City Donut Jockeys, of trigger-happy NPCs who think they're going off to become the next Big Hero only to be impaled on the first kobold's spear as the battle begins. That's part of what makes the heroic fantasy genre. When the dragon's breath incinerates everyone else in the world, it requires a [I]hero[/I] to stand against it. When the Joker is terrorizing Gotham, it requires a [I]hero[/I] to stand against him. People who are just beet farmers and beat cops get killed, in massive waves. That's why a hero is needed. Heroes don't get killed by dragons, beet farmers do. So D&D makes beet farmers, militia members, marines, cops, and all those people who will be unable to stop the Great Evil statless (DM fiat can kill them!) or low-level Commoners or Warriors (Maybe they'll get lucky and save and survive, due to their extensive combat training but probably not...). Heroes will probably survive. Because they are the heroes. Early D&D varied in this, because early D&D largely didn't really try to emulate a genre, it just tried to give you interesting things to put in a dungeon, to kill PC's in droves. Of course, early D&D had a bigger problem with the wizard vs. warrior balance, too. These problems are not unrelated, I think. If the only difference between a beat cop and Batman is that Batman went off to fight the Joker and got lucky enough to survive, Batman could not fight Superman, or fight other supervillains on a regular basis. The difference is that the Joker gets to automatically kill beat cops. But Batman, favored by luck, enhanced by superheroic, godlike levels of tech, practice, and skill....Batman has a good chance to survive. The Dragon gets to kill as many beet farmers as they want, but the Fighter -- the Fighter has a good chance to survive. [/QUOTE]
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