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<blockquote data-quote="UngainlyTitan" data-source="post: 5501373" data-attributes="member: 28487">I am going to jump in here, because this is germane to the original discussion but capturing the party is pretty problematic in rpgs in the first place and more likely to end in TPK&nbsp; and pissed off players.&nbsp;Death traps are pretty much as problematical, given that the players are not really likely to be smart enough to solve it or if they are then it is not likely to come across as a real deathtrap.&nbsp;That kind of stuff works better in stories, where the author has full authority and complete control of all the variables.&nbsp;To be honest, in literature the issue of balance is irrelevant, the protagonists drive the story and if they are warriors they use warrior stuff and if wizards they use magic and some are good at both and use both.&nbsp;Finally, whiile I am pretty sure I could pull off the capture even with minions in 4e, I am not sure I could pull off a convincing deathtrap.&nbsp;One thing about deathtrtaps, we know how stories work. If we are watching/reading heroic fiction then the protagonist win for a certain value of win. At the very minimun the bad guy is thwarted. So a deattrap that allows the bad guy to win is one that we expect to see overcome. The interested from the reader/viewer is that we do not know how this is going to be accomplished (at least if it is really well done).&nbsp;Getting that in a game is, I think, impossible. An rpg campaign does not, normally, create a particular type of story from the get go. We may be aiming for heroic fantasy but we could get tragedy, comedy or farce or some unfinished work and we do not know what we have until the campaign is over.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="UngainlyTitan, post: 5501373, member: 28487"] I am going to jump in here, because this is germane to the original discussion but capturing the party is pretty problematic in rpgs in the first place and more likely to end in TPK and pissed off players. Death traps are pretty much as problematical, given that the players are not really likely to be smart enough to solve it or if they are then it is not likely to come across as a real deathtrap. That kind of stuff works better in stories, where the author has full authority and complete control of all the variables. To be honest, in literature the issue of balance is irrelevant, the protagonists drive the story and if they are warriors they use warrior stuff and if wizards they use magic and some are good at both and use both. Finally, whiile I am pretty sure I could pull off the capture even with minions in 4e, I am not sure I could pull off a convincing deathtrap. One thing about deathtrtaps, we know how stories work. If we are watching/reading heroic fiction then the protagonist win for a certain value of win. At the very minimun the bad guy is thwarted. So a deattrap that allows the bad guy to win is one that we expect to see overcome. The interested from the reader/viewer is that we do not know how this is going to be accomplished (at least if it is really well done). Getting that in a game is, I think, impossible. An rpg campaign does not, normally, create a particular type of story from the get go. We may be aiming for heroic fantasy but we could get tragedy, comedy or farce or some unfinished work and we do not know what we have until the campaign is over. [/QUOTE]

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