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How is the Wizard vs Warrior Balance Problem Handled in Fantasy Literature?
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<blockquote data-quote="Thanael" data-source="post: 5504450" data-attributes="member: 22734"><p>Huh? When did this thread derail into an NPC vs PC thread? </p><p></p><p>The different rules have very different takes on this. If you run 1E or 2E you have those 0-level people which to me do not make much sense. 4E has reintroduced them via the mooks rules. In effect when you need an NPCs to have an ability you cheat or make him a solo/PC. This makes the PCs and villains (even more) superheroes. 3E introduced NPC classes for this so that PCs and NPCs can use the same rules and can have skill ranks and advance in their craft.</p><p></p><p>Of all these I like the 3E/PF system the best. Yes I'm simulationist.</p><p></p><p>Anybody remember MavrickWeirdo's NPC over a lifetime threads? I loved those. In fact here's my little NPC-classes-are-cool-rant with lots of juicy links:</p><p></p><p>[sblock]IMO 1st level (N)PCs are children or adolescents. This is supported by the starting ages for PC classes. Level 1 Commmoners have to be either very young or very inexperienced IMO. A level 1 warrior is a newb, a green recruit or the local school bully. Barely older than 15.</p><p></p><p>NPCs gain XP too! I think that the NPC classes were invented for exactly that. </p><p></p><p>In 2E you had all those 0-lvl humans running around who would die if you so much as looked at them. 3e takes nice care of that. A commoner will advance to level 2 or 3 at least, perhaps level 6 when he dies of old age. Age modifiers will do their part to keep some of his abilities like hps and fighting ability stagnating (or even deteriorating) between levels 3 to 6 while his life experience increases his skills and abilities (feats). Check out the examples in the links below. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>See also <a href="http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/theoryaboutpeasants.html" target="_blank">SKR's Theory about peasants</a> and the great <a href="http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=271547" target="_blank">Level advancement over a lifetime</a>, and the <a href="http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=97601&page=1&pp=40" target="_blank">Common Commoner</a> discussions on ENWorld.</p><p></p><p>Here are some threads with interesting NPCs</p><p></p><p>MavrickWeirdo's:</p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=20566" target="_blank">NPC Commoner over a lifetime</a> </p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=19173" target="_blank">NPC guard over lifetime</a></p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=82012" target="_blank">Commoner 2: Elf Farmer, over a lifetime</a></p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=24897" target="_blank">NPC Expert Horseman over a lifetime</a></p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=83038" target="_blank">Commoner vs. Expert over a lifetime</a> </p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=80107" target="_blank">Commoners 1: Runners</a></p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/83357-ellie-may-farmer-s-daughter.html" target="_blank">Ellie May, Farmer's daugher</a></p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/116-goblin-day.html" target="_blank">Goblin-a-day</a></p><p></p><p>Blackdirge's:</p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=29357" target="_blank">The rise and fall of an Orc Chieftain (Orc warrior NPC throughout his life)</a></p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=29686" target="_blank">Myrgle, Adept of Yeenoghu (Gnoll NPC adept throughout his life and beyond)</a></p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/printthread.php?t=31800" target="_blank">Urg the Unlikely, Half-Ogre Wizard NPC throughout a lifetime.</a></p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/36075-grummok-gargoyle-assassin-updated-2-26-04-epic-grummok-3-5-a.html" target="_blank">Grummok Gargoyle Assassin throughout a lifetime</a></p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/33823-nithrekel-earth-mephit-fighter-npc-through-50-years-servitude.html" target="_blank">Nithrekel, Earth Mephit Fighter NPC through 50 years of servitude</a></p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/53843-stats-metamorphosis-dretch-demon-lord-updated-06-22-03-a.html" target="_blank">Stats from Metamorphosis - From Dretch to Demon Lord.</a></p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/44315-blackdirges-suped-up-monster-thread-monster-column-updated-06-26-06-a.html" target="_blank">Suped up Monsters</a></p><p></p><p>Turanil's </p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=99643" target="_blank">D100 NPC thread</a> has lots of very interesting Everyday NPCs</p><p>, among them:</p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=1794635&postcount=35" target="_blank">Very high level basic NPCs</a></p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=1886831&postcount=49" target="_blank">Toothless Joe, high level commoner</a></p><p>... and many many others. Send him a mail or post in the thread to get the compiled document with all 100 NPCs.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=7388325&postcount=22" target="_blank">Farmer Tobias, an Epic level Commoner</a></p><p></p><p>Check out the excellent <a href="http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19558998/Commoner_Campaign?pg=1" target="_blank">Commoner Campaign thread</a> on WotC boards for an actual solo campaign log with a commoner PC. (including 3E statblocks)[/sblock]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Thanael, post: 5504450, member: 22734"] Huh? When did this thread derail into an NPC vs PC thread? The different rules have very different takes on this. If you run 1E or 2E you have those 0-level people which to me do not make much sense. 4E has reintroduced them via the mooks rules. In effect when you need an NPCs to have an ability you cheat or make him a solo/PC. This makes the PCs and villains (even more) superheroes. 3E introduced NPC classes for this so that PCs and NPCs can use the same rules and can have skill ranks and advance in their craft. Of all these I like the 3E/PF system the best. Yes I'm simulationist. Anybody remember MavrickWeirdo's NPC over a lifetime threads? I loved those. In fact here's my little NPC-classes-are-cool-rant with lots of juicy links: [sblock]IMO 1st level (N)PCs are children or adolescents. This is supported by the starting ages for PC classes. Level 1 Commmoners have to be either very young or very inexperienced IMO. A level 1 warrior is a newb, a green recruit or the local school bully. Barely older than 15. NPCs gain XP too! I think that the NPC classes were invented for exactly that. In 2E you had all those 0-lvl humans running around who would die if you so much as looked at them. 3e takes nice care of that. A commoner will advance to level 2 or 3 at least, perhaps level 6 when he dies of old age. Age modifiers will do their part to keep some of his abilities like hps and fighting ability stagnating (or even deteriorating) between levels 3 to 6 while his life experience increases his skills and abilities (feats). Check out the examples in the links below. See also [url=http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/theoryaboutpeasants.html]SKR's Theory about peasants[/url] and the great [url=http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=271547]Level advancement over a lifetime[/url], and the [url=http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=97601&page=1&pp=40]Common Commoner[/url] discussions on ENWorld. Here are some threads with interesting NPCs MavrickWeirdo's: [url=http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=20566]NPC Commoner over a lifetime[/url] [url=http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=19173]NPC guard over lifetime[/url] [url=http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=82012]Commoner 2: Elf Farmer, over a lifetime[/url] [url=http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=24897]NPC Expert Horseman over a lifetime[/url] [url=http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=83038]Commoner vs. Expert over a lifetime[/url] [url=http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=80107]Commoners 1: Runners[/url] [url=http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/83357-ellie-may-farmer-s-daughter.html]Ellie May, Farmer's daugher[/url] [url=http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/116-goblin-day.html]Goblin-a-day[/url] Blackdirge's: [url=http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=29357]The rise and fall of an Orc Chieftain (Orc warrior NPC throughout his life)[/url] [url=http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=29686]Myrgle, Adept of Yeenoghu (Gnoll NPC adept throughout his life and beyond)[/url] [url=http://www.enworld.org/printthread.php?t=31800]Urg the Unlikely, Half-Ogre Wizard NPC throughout a lifetime.[/url] [url=http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/36075-grummok-gargoyle-assassin-updated-2-26-04-epic-grummok-3-5-a.html]Grummok Gargoyle Assassin throughout a lifetime[/url] [url=http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/33823-nithrekel-earth-mephit-fighter-npc-through-50-years-servitude.html]Nithrekel, Earth Mephit Fighter NPC through 50 years of servitude[/url] [url=http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/53843-stats-metamorphosis-dretch-demon-lord-updated-06-22-03-a.html]Stats from Metamorphosis - From Dretch to Demon Lord.[/url] [url=http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/44315-blackdirges-suped-up-monster-thread-monster-column-updated-06-26-06-a.html]Suped up Monsters[/url] Turanil's [url=http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=99643]D100 NPC thread[/url] has lots of very interesting Everyday NPCs , among them: [url=http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=1794635&postcount=35]Very high level basic NPCs[/url] [url=http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=1886831&postcount=49]Toothless Joe, high level commoner[/url] ... and many many others. Send him a mail or post in the thread to get the compiled document with all 100 NPCs. [url=http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=7388325&postcount=22]Farmer Tobias, an Epic level Commoner[/url] Check out the excellent [url=http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19558998/Commoner_Campaign?pg=1]Commoner Campaign thread[/url] on WotC boards for an actual solo campaign log with a commoner PC. (including 3E statblocks)[/sblock] [/QUOTE]
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