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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5510037" data-attributes="member: 87792">That isn't what I see.&nbsp; What I see is a game where the wizard gets to pick two spells per level and a lot of spells are significantly unbalancing, even (or perhaps especially) in the PHB.&nbsp; Just off the top of my head, at second level Alter Self is a scary, scary good spell and Glitterdust is a fight ender (if you can't kill someone with three rounds of blindness you aren't trying).&nbsp; You don't need absolute free choice - just some choice and some ability to pick your spells.&nbsp; And I've yet to see a DM put serious bans on non-polymorph core spells.&nbsp;&nbsp;The issue is one of level here.&nbsp; What can everyone else do while the wizard is tossing spectacular spells around?&nbsp; (1e solved it by giving the fighter a castle and the thief a guild, 4e solves it by making spectacular magic cost time and resources).&nbsp;Or even trivialising the limits.&nbsp;&nbsp;Tell me when the 4e fighter gets truly spectacular magic.&nbsp; Rather than being somewhere around James Bond level&nbsp;And in my experience the only two RPGs with bigger arms races than 3.X are Exalted and Rifts.&nbsp;&nbsp;And a complete lack of optimisation indicates that you are not actually interested in roleplaying.&nbsp; You are meant to be roleplaying characters who routinely fight for their lives.&nbsp; If you don't make IC optimisation choices (equipment for instance - metachoices like feat and build are another matter) you are roleplaying someone who's about as concerned with their life, the lives of their friends, and the lives of those they are protecting as they would be if they were going on a schoolgirl's picnic.&nbsp;And yes, logistics can be a pain in the ass and they are tedious.&nbsp; Which is one of many reasons I dislike high level 3.X - there are too many edges to gain and too much detail in the unfun part of the game.&nbsp; But a part that IC you know keeps you alive longer and therefore you do to an extent if you are staying in character.&nbsp;&nbsp;The problem is that your so-called &quot;better people&quot; are people who have been together a long time, have a shared and unwritten code of conduct, and know each others' gaming likes and dislikes.&nbsp; A group like that is good - but not everyone is lucky enough to have one and you need luck to find one (I have the fortune to have done so I think).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5510037, member: 87792"] That isn't what I see. What I see is a game where the wizard gets to pick two spells per level and a lot of spells are significantly unbalancing, even (or perhaps especially) in the PHB. Just off the top of my head, at second level Alter Self is a scary, scary good spell and Glitterdust is a fight ender (if you can't kill someone with three rounds of blindness you aren't trying). You don't need absolute free choice - just some choice and some ability to pick your spells. And I've yet to see a DM put serious bans on non-polymorph core spells. The issue is one of level here. What can everyone else do while the wizard is tossing spectacular spells around? (1e solved it by giving the fighter a castle and the thief a guild, 4e solves it by making spectacular magic cost time and resources). Or even trivialising the limits. Tell me when the 4e fighter gets truly spectacular magic. Rather than being somewhere around James Bond level And in my experience the only two RPGs with bigger arms races than 3.X are Exalted and Rifts. And a complete lack of optimisation indicates that you are not actually interested in roleplaying. You are meant to be roleplaying characters who routinely fight for their lives. If you don't make IC optimisation choices (equipment for instance - metachoices like feat and build are another matter) you are roleplaying someone who's about as concerned with their life, the lives of their friends, and the lives of those they are protecting as they would be if they were going on a schoolgirl's picnic. And yes, logistics can be a pain in the ass and they are tedious. Which is one of many reasons I dislike high level 3.X - there are too many edges to gain and too much detail in the unfun part of the game. But a part that IC you know keeps you alive longer and therefore you do to an extent if you are staying in character. The problem is that your so-called "better people" are people who have been together a long time, have a shared and unwritten code of conduct, and know each others' gaming likes and dislikes. A group like that is good - but not everyone is lucky enough to have one and you need luck to find one (I have the fortune to have done so I think). [/QUOTE]

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