Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="triqui" data-source="post: 5512619" data-attributes="member: 57948">I did have a problem with Invisibility as a rogue, back in the 2e, though. Not only with invisibility, but with Knock too. It completely step on my toes as the "party explorer". Sure, I can still get a cookie here and there, and get a chance to infiltrate in places when it doesnt matter or if stakes aren´t high. But if it is something really important, then the real character (also known as the wizard) step in and do the real job. That was frustrating for me (although made the wizard player very happy). YMMV, though.I guess this makes to a fundamental aspect of the situation. When in a "magic can do everything" style of play/fiction, there are some players that don't like the situation, becouse the spotlight is never on them, except when it doesn't matter, and they feel themselves as second-grade characters or guest starrings. Those players can't really do anything about it, except rolling a character that has the qualities needed to be the one who shines (so, a spellcaster). Other players, though, are just fine with it. They either like to play spellcasters, or are confortable with a co-starring. Not all the players want the same from the game, lot of them just want to meet, chat with friends, take pizza, laugh a lot and have fun (which is really a great stance, btw), and aren't really involved in creating the fiction, moving the plot or starring the game. 4e has a design that contain a clear flaw. It's fundamental stone is that all the players *want* balance, and all the players *want* to share the spot light. And that's simply not true. Some players doesn't really want to get involved that much (either in the narrativity, or rules-wise, or both), and are perfectly fine with being surpassed by other character's power. And that's 3e (and specially 2e) real power: it can acommodate such players much better. In 4e, those "casual players" have a tough time. Even if they become fighters, they still have options. They have powers, feats, and utilities just as much as everyother guy (or close to. Wizards still have more, becouse of rituals). And that can be frustrating for them. On the other hand, 3e had a problem for players that wanted balance, or a fair share of spotlight, *and didnt want to roll a spellcaster* for whatever reasons (like simply liking Arthur more than Merlin as an archetype). So it bassically sums it up as: "what are the majority of your players up to?" If your group is fine with having 2 separated levels of importance (ie: "bob is the one that stealths into orc's camp, but when you plan to stealth into the Orc King Throne Hall you need Mike's invisibility spell", or "bob rolls gather info, but if the matter is really important, then Jack cast Commune"), then 3e, or Rolemaster, is your game. However, if you want all the players to share the spotlight and/or being balanced, then 4e, or Legends of the Five Rings, are better choices.</blockquote>

Verification