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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5513107" data-attributes="member: 22779">The problem isn't when the horse says the count did it because, you are absolutely right, the horse is simply another actor in the ongoing story.However, when I hit the Divination button, because I'm a 7th level cleric, and my GOD tells me that the Count did it, that's a bit stronger.&nbsp; Or various mind reading spells.&nbsp; Or, Zone of Truth and simply ask everyone.&nbsp; Or or or.&nbsp; There's a million and one different plot asploding spells out there.&nbsp; Speak with animals is a pretty minor one.&nbsp; Commune is a tad stronger.Sort of.&nbsp; Look at the actual list of MU spells in the PHB.&nbsp; 11 spells covers nearly the entire list for anything over 4th level.&nbsp; 1st level has what, 20 ish spells?&nbsp; With a 16 Int, I've got most of the bases covered and anything more than that is gravy.But, that does speak a lot to your second point.&nbsp; A lot of the 3e era spells simply don't exist in 1e D&amp;D.&nbsp; They're not an issue.But, as far as DM's dictating the cleric's spells, doesn't that cut both ways?&nbsp; If the DM knows that they are heading into a murder mystery situation, shouldn't he tailor the cleric's list to be the most useful?&nbsp; Isn't that actually worse than letting the player pick his spell list?&nbsp; Unless, of course, the DM is being a bit of a dick and deliberately withholding spells that would be the most useful.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5513107, member: 22779"] The problem isn't when the horse says the count did it because, you are absolutely right, the horse is simply another actor in the ongoing story. However, when I hit the Divination button, because I'm a 7th level cleric, and my GOD tells me that the Count did it, that's a bit stronger. Or various mind reading spells. Or, Zone of Truth and simply ask everyone. Or or or. There's a million and one different plot asploding spells out there. Speak with animals is a pretty minor one. Commune is a tad stronger. Sort of. Look at the actual list of MU spells in the PHB. 11 spells covers nearly the entire list for anything over 4th level. 1st level has what, 20 ish spells? With a 16 Int, I've got most of the bases covered and anything more than that is gravy. But, that does speak a lot to your second point. A lot of the 3e era spells simply don't exist in 1e D&D. They're not an issue. But, as far as DM's dictating the cleric's spells, doesn't that cut both ways? If the DM knows that they are heading into a murder mystery situation, shouldn't he tailor the cleric's list to be the most useful? Isn't that actually worse than letting the player pick his spell list? Unless, of course, the DM is being a bit of a dick and deliberately withholding spells that would be the most useful. [/QUOTE]

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