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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5519139" data-attributes="member: 22779">But, see, there's the problem.  D&D, as it's presented is not this high magic, magic solves all game.Looking at various settings - Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, etc. the settings are presented as medieval Europe with a veneer of magic layered on top.  The problem comes when you scratch below the surface, it's not hard to start seeing some really glaring incongruities.For example, DannyA talks about fantasy armies looking a lot like modern specialist armies.  And I agree, that's what they probably should look like.  But, that's not how it's presented in the settings.  You have medieval castles, feudal lords and whatnot.Yes, you could certainly look for a different system.  Or, you could change the system so that it actually fits the setting its trying to present.D&D, up to 4e, is based on the idea that you are going to go to dungeons, kill the creatures and come back and then go to the next dungeon.  (By dungeon here, I mean adventure of some form - not necessarily a hole in the ground) But, it also tried to incorporate all these ideas on how to build the larger world as well.  But, the magic system gets in the way in very large ways.Take something as simple as continual light/continual flame (depending on edition).  Access to PERMANENT light sources would have an enormous impact on a setting.  But, why do we have these spells?  Well, because our adventurers go down into dungeons and carrying a sack full of torches is a PITA.  So, we have Continual Light.  Makes dungeon crawling that much easier.  The broader effects of cheap, permanent magics are simply hand waved away.One of the largest changes in 4e is the removal of nearly all permanent effects.  You don't have cities lit with continual light because there isn't any continual light to cast.  You don't have explosive rune arrow grenades (a favorite trick of our groups).  You don't have Item spelled barrels of burning oil bombs.Upthread I talked about how the setting has to take magic into account and someone talked about how a government would likely have some sort of Inquisition style group to stop wizards from getting too powerful.  But, that's still the problem.  The magic system is dictating my setting.  I can't ignore the issue if I want a believable setting.</blockquote>

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