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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5522514" data-attributes="member: 87792">Other than that I roleplay PCs in challenging situations.&nbsp; I don't care about playing weak characters.&nbsp; I do care that if I'm playing a character fighting for his life, I don't need to engage in doublethink to hold him back.&nbsp; I don't want to seriously overshadow the other PCs, and I don't want to have to fight myself not to by treating what are in character life-threatening situations as not that serious.&nbsp; So I can't play 3.X wizards at high level.The Druid being the other 9th level divine caster in the PHB who can cast Heal.&nbsp; And in AD&amp;D a subclass of cleric...Honestly, I think it depends what level you are at.&nbsp; E6 works because it's before it becomes a system problem.In AD&amp;D (1e certainly) clerics got temples at either 8th or 9th level, fighters got keeps at 9th level, wizards got towers and the ability to make items at 11th level, and thieves got guilds at 10th.&nbsp; Which means that in the playtest group that's where the game changed - and the spells had a lot less empirical playtesting above that level because the characters were often playing with their big toys.&nbsp; In 3.0, fighters and thieves lost their keeps and guilds.&nbsp; Clerics lost their temples - but gained high level spells to make up for it.&nbsp; And Wizards lost their towers (the weakest/least influential of the buildings) but gained the ability to craft scrolls from level 1.&nbsp; So I think that that's around when the game goes wonky.&nbsp; The plot power that fighters and thieves were meant to gain in AD&amp;D to make up for the wizard's (and cleric's) increasing plot power from better spells never shows up in 3.X.&nbsp; Around the time the Wizard had 5th level spells, the fighter had a castle and men at arms - whereas in 3.X the wizard gets 5th level spells with fewer restrictions and the fighter ... can swing his sword slightly better.Eyeballing, I'd have said the barbarian (and possibly the fighter) could about hold their own until 4th level spells showed up.&nbsp; And if you gave fighters free keeps and castles as in AD&amp;D they'd probably balance 5th level and 6th level spells...&nbsp; E6 works - and in AD&amp;D the fighter dipped behind a bit until their keep showed up, when they put on a surge to overtake for another couple of levels before falling behind again.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5522514, member: 87792"] Other than that I roleplay PCs in challenging situations. I [I]don't care[/I] about playing weak characters. I do care that if I'm playing a character fighting for his life, I don't need to engage in doublethink to hold him back. I don't want to seriously overshadow the other PCs, and I don't want to have to fight myself not to by treating what are in character life-threatening situations as not that serious. So I can't play 3.X wizards at high level. The Druid being the other 9th level divine caster in the PHB who can cast Heal. And in AD&D a subclass of cleric... Honestly, I think it depends what level you are at. E6 works because it's before it becomes a system problem. In AD&D (1e certainly) clerics got temples at either 8th or 9th level, fighters got keeps at 9th level, wizards got towers and the ability to make items at 11th level, and thieves got guilds at 10th. Which means that in the playtest group that's where the game changed - and the spells had a lot less empirical playtesting above that level because the characters were often playing with their big toys. In 3.0, fighters and thieves lost their keeps and guilds. Clerics lost their temples - but gained high level spells to make up for it. And Wizards lost their towers (the weakest/least influential of the buildings) [I]but gained the ability to craft scrolls from level 1[/I]. So I think that that's around when the game goes wonky. The plot power that fighters and thieves were meant to gain in AD&D to make up for the wizard's (and cleric's) increasing plot power from better spells never shows up in 3.X. Around the time the Wizard had 5th level spells, the fighter had a castle and men at arms - whereas in 3.X the wizard gets 5th level spells [I]with fewer restrictions[/I] and the fighter ... can swing his sword slightly better. Eyeballing, I'd have said the barbarian (and possibly the fighter) could about hold their own until 4th level spells showed up. And if you gave fighters free keeps and castles as in AD&D they'd probably balance 5th level and 6th level spells... E6 works - and in AD&D the fighter dipped behind a bit until their keep showed up, when they put on a surge to overtake for another couple of levels before falling behind again. [/QUOTE]

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