Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Votan" data-source="post: 5525162" data-attributes="member: 18680">I removed the middle because I want to focus on the example for a moment (not to nit pick but because I think Pug and Tomas is a very good example).  Tomas merges with a mythical being (the greatest of the Valheru, Ashen-Shugar) and even the language of the Valheru is a domination effect.  This is very different than a simple man at arms who happens to be very powerful and it makes him an excellent compliment to Pug (who makes a very powerful archmage).  If Fighters or Barbarians gained these types of supernatural powers at high levels then they'd be a very good match for the Wizards and Clerics.  One of the things that I found frustrating in 3E was that the Fighter ended up with very weak social skills (in contrast with an AD&d fighter where this was not necessarily true).  Consider Diplomacy and Sense Motive.  A 15th level Fighter who does not purchase cross class skills will have somewhere between -1 and +2 in these skills (plus any cross class ranks).  Her will save is base +5 (making her susceptible to domination effects).  Best case, imagine a fighter who commits one skill point per level to either diplomacy or sense motive.  One would expect between a +4 and +7 bonus in these skills.  A cleric has these as class skills and is likely to have a high wisdom modifier (maybe +6 at that level).  So Sense Motive might easily reach +24 and Diplomacy (with an 8 CHA) could easily be + 17.  Will Save is around +9 (with another +6 for wisdom) making her much harder to dominate.  A DC 20 skill challenge (Diplomacy or Sense Motive) would be easily for the diplomatic cleric and nearly impossible for most fighters.  Consider the simple ability to detect if somebody is dominated (critical for a leader).  The cleric will nearly always succeed (if not always with a DC25 check to sense enchantment) whereas few fighters have a chance.  So, ironically, the fighter no longer makes great sense as a leader of men in 3E (lacking many of the basic skills).  Rogues, Bards and Clerics do much better in this (classically fighter based) role, the later two of which are much harder to control by an evil doer.  And they are better judges of character and so forth.  Tomas, or King Arthur or Conan, as literary examples are quite capable of judging people, leading men or resisting mind affecting magic.  I was concerned that the 3E fighter did these roles poorly.</blockquote>

Verification