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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5532712" data-attributes="member: 22779">Ok, this sidebar about maps and such is interesting, but, could we please actually roll back around to the main issue which is the discrepancy between casters and non-casters?There's been some rumblings in this thread that this is something new.&nbsp; That this is somehow something that's only come up in recent memory as a way to bash 3e.&nbsp; This is simply not true.&nbsp; I've already provided some examples, but, let's look at a bit of history shall we?Casters get whack like a pinata with the nerf bat in a number of areas over the years.&nbsp; High level AD&amp;D modules have a shopping list of spells and effects that do not function (and match almost word for word the problematic spells and effects listed earlier in this thread).&nbsp; Additionally, various settings also take casters to task.&nbsp; Dragonlance, back in 1e, only allowed casters to reach 18th level but placed no such limits on non-casters.&nbsp; Ravenloft, as I recall, also bludgeoned the casters with the nerf bat, reducing their effectiveness in the service of the setting.I just happened to pull out an old 2e module, A Heroes Tale, which is a series of small modules centered around a single theme - a sort of really, really mini adventure path.&nbsp; The highest level adventure takes place in a planar prison with the following effect:Guess what happens to the non-casters... if you said nothing, give yourself a cookie.Heck, even a quick perusal of the excellent &quot;Let's Read the Entire Run&quot; thread shows up examples (such as <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/239789-lets-read-entire-run-5.html#post4476650" target="_blank">this</a> (prophet proofing article) talking about the issues with spells in 1978!This is an issue that has been around a REALLY long time.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5532712, member: 22779"] Ok, this sidebar about maps and such is interesting, but, could we please actually roll back around to the main issue which is the discrepancy between casters and non-casters? There's been some rumblings in this thread that this is something new. That this is somehow something that's only come up in recent memory as a way to bash 3e. This is simply not true. I've already provided some examples, but, let's look at a bit of history shall we? Casters get whack like a pinata with the nerf bat in a number of areas over the years. High level AD&D modules have a shopping list of spells and effects that do not function (and match almost word for word the problematic spells and effects listed earlier in this thread). Additionally, various settings also take casters to task. Dragonlance, back in 1e, only allowed casters to reach 18th level but placed no such limits on non-casters. Ravenloft, as I recall, also bludgeoned the casters with the nerf bat, reducing their effectiveness in the service of the setting. I just happened to pull out an old 2e module, A Heroes Tale, which is a series of small modules centered around a single theme - a sort of really, really mini adventure path. The highest level adventure takes place in a planar prison with the following effect: Guess what happens to the non-casters... if you said nothing, give yourself a cookie. Heck, even a quick perusal of the excellent "Let's Read the Entire Run" thread shows up examples (such as [url=http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/239789-lets-read-entire-run-5.html#post4476650]this[/url] (prophet proofing article) talking about the issues with spells in 1978! This is an issue that has been around a REALLY long time. [/QUOTE]

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