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How is the Wizard vs Warrior Balance Problem Handled in Fantasy Literature?
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5535319" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>And this absolutely nails it. If my character is the best team player he can be then I am going to get called a douche for playing a team player. If I am deliberately holding back my character and making weak choices to allow others to have fun then my character is either an idiot or the sort of douche who enjoys seeing his so called friends suffer and die. </p><p> </p><p>When the system forces you to chose between play many consider douch-y and playing a character who is an idiot who needlessly risks the lives of his so-called friends and allies, then it is the system design that is at fault.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Not only put it there <em>but encourage its use</em> and never warn you about it. That is the truly damning part of the equation.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>No. Not fine. If you need to houserule for this it is because someone <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />ed up.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>Absolutely! And in order to prevent this you need to allow PCs not much more down time than in the average episode of <em>24</em>. Creating a wand of a first level spell takes <em>1 day</em>. So does a scroll. You can't allow PCs a lazy month at all.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>The potential is not only in the game. It is hard coded into the PHB that all wizards get Scribe Scroll. <em>All</em> wizards are crafters.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>And bits in a number of the books to suggest it should. IIRC the quote that springs to mind is that "If it's in D&D it has a place in Eberron."</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>It not only does that. It highlights that the system is <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />ed up. I can add a drop-in player I've never met to a level 8 4e game without trouble and with limited making sure we are on the same page; the social contract basically boils down to "Don't be a jerk". In 3e, because there's a hideous imbalance, what's considered douchy varies from group to group. Some embrace the high magic. Some ban items. Some tinker with spells. What counts as being a jerk varies grop to group. This just demonstrates the system problem. Not that a good group of players can't get round it. But the problem is baked in to the system.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5535319, member: 87792"] And this absolutely nails it. If my character is the best team player he can be then I am going to get called a douche for playing a team player. If I am deliberately holding back my character and making weak choices to allow others to have fun then my character is either an idiot or the sort of douche who enjoys seeing his so called friends suffer and die. When the system forces you to chose between play many consider douch-y and playing a character who is an idiot who needlessly risks the lives of his so-called friends and allies, then it is the system design that is at fault. Not only put it there [I]but encourage its use[/I] and never warn you about it. That is the truly damning part of the equation. No. Not fine. If you need to houserule for this it is because someone :):):):)ed up. Absolutely! And in order to prevent this you need to allow PCs not much more down time than in the average episode of [I]24[/I]. Creating a wand of a first level spell takes [I]1 day[/I]. So does a scroll. You can't allow PCs a lazy month at all. The potential is not only in the game. It is hard coded into the PHB that all wizards get Scribe Scroll. [I]All[/I] wizards are crafters. And bits in a number of the books to suggest it should. IIRC the quote that springs to mind is that "If it's in D&D it has a place in Eberron." It not only does that. It highlights that the system is :):):):)ed up. I can add a drop-in player I've never met to a level 8 4e game without trouble and with limited making sure we are on the same page; the social contract basically boils down to "Don't be a jerk". In 3e, because there's a hideous imbalance, what's considered douchy varies from group to group. Some embrace the high magic. Some ban items. Some tinker with spells. What counts as being a jerk varies grop to group. This just demonstrates the system problem. Not that a good group of players can't get round it. But the problem is baked in to the system. [/QUOTE]
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