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How is the Wizard vs Warrior Balance Problem Handled in Fantasy Literature?
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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5535362" data-attributes="member: 54877"><p>This is where I say that your statements, and Jeff Wilder's about it only being a problem if the wizard player is a douche, or the GM incompetent, or such, are too absolute.</p><p> </p><p>It is true that at given levels (the infamous sweet spot), what you say is more or less true. The exact sweet spot moves a bit from table to table (which ought to tell us something in itself). </p><p> </p><p>I'm not an incompetent DM on this issue. I may not be Thor's gift to DMing, but let us just stipulate that I'm not incompetent. Resource consumption? I had them doing 6-8 encounters per day, and not usually easy ones, either--in a campaign that made it somewhat difficult, compared to RAW, to stockpile scrolls, wands, etc. </p><p> </p><p>I haven't had a douche player at my table for at least a decade. Quite the opposite, in fact, as the players are bending over backwards to make it work (whatever it is.) We had a wizard <strong>start</strong> to dominate a campaign around 7th level, and it got steadily and noticeably worse as the campaign went on--right up to 15th level where it fell apart due to sheer frustration. Notably, we did not have a cleric nor a druid in that campaign.</p><p> </p><p>There are two objections to the kind of "jumping through hoops" that gets required to keep this from becoming a problem, once you get outside the sweet spot, though:</p><p> </p><p>1. This is work that the DM is spending on managing the potential wizard or other caster domination that is not being spent on something more productive.</p><p> </p><p>2. There is a peculiar knife edge that the wizard (or cleric or druid) player has to walk, especially if the DM is putting in that work. It is <strong>not</strong> simply take imperfect spells or make imperfect selections during a fight. Rather, it is make a snap judgment on each encounter to see if the DM is pushing the casters or not. If the DM is pushing, then unleash the big guns--otherwise the party is so hosed. If the DM is not pushing, hold back to keep from overshadowing the other characters. </p><p> </p><p>And note that as a group, we don't even mind having an occasional cake walk encounter or one where the party has to flee, perhaps leaving a dead comrade behind. </p><p> </p><p>This is not about dribbling with your face in basketball. This is your local basketball league makes you text message during key moments in the game. Sure you can deal with that complicaton same as all the other people. It's fair. It's a team effort. But excuse some of us for thinking perhaps this should not be a central requirement in the spirit of basketball. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/ponder.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hmm:" title="Hmmm :hmm:" data-shortname=":hmm:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5535362, member: 54877"] This is where I say that your statements, and Jeff Wilder's about it only being a problem if the wizard player is a douche, or the GM incompetent, or such, are too absolute. It is true that at given levels (the infamous sweet spot), what you say is more or less true. The exact sweet spot moves a bit from table to table (which ought to tell us something in itself). I'm not an incompetent DM on this issue. I may not be Thor's gift to DMing, but let us just stipulate that I'm not incompetent. Resource consumption? I had them doing 6-8 encounters per day, and not usually easy ones, either--in a campaign that made it somewhat difficult, compared to RAW, to stockpile scrolls, wands, etc. I haven't had a douche player at my table for at least a decade. Quite the opposite, in fact, as the players are bending over backwards to make it work (whatever it is.) We had a wizard [B]start[/B] to dominate a campaign around 7th level, and it got steadily and noticeably worse as the campaign went on--right up to 15th level where it fell apart due to sheer frustration. Notably, we did not have a cleric nor a druid in that campaign. There are two objections to the kind of "jumping through hoops" that gets required to keep this from becoming a problem, once you get outside the sweet spot, though: 1. This is work that the DM is spending on managing the potential wizard or other caster domination that is not being spent on something more productive. 2. There is a peculiar knife edge that the wizard (or cleric or druid) player has to walk, especially if the DM is putting in that work. It is [B]not[/B] simply take imperfect spells or make imperfect selections during a fight. Rather, it is make a snap judgment on each encounter to see if the DM is pushing the casters or not. If the DM is pushing, then unleash the big guns--otherwise the party is so hosed. If the DM is not pushing, hold back to keep from overshadowing the other characters. And note that as a group, we don't even mind having an occasional cake walk encounter or one where the party has to flee, perhaps leaving a dead comrade behind. This is not about dribbling with your face in basketball. This is your local basketball league makes you text message during key moments in the game. Sure you can deal with that complicaton same as all the other people. It's fair. It's a team effort. But excuse some of us for thinking perhaps this should not be a central requirement in the spirit of basketball. :hmm: [/QUOTE]
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