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<blockquote data-quote="NoWayJose" data-source="post: 5537278" data-attributes="member: 84810">I agree with everything you wrote, about the contrast between 3e vs 4e, and a theoretical sweet spot inbetween, and that 4E is somewhat fetishistic about balance, which is a really good way of articulating it for me, because if someone has a &quot;fetish&quot;, it's very difficult to sway them (although one could argue that I have a &quot;fetish&quot; towards versimilitude, immersion, fiction-first, etc. which is possible, except that I didn't successfully force my fetish on anyone, I just stopped playing). Maybe that's not WoTC's onus if players themselves analyze and report every imbalance, but maybe the players wouldn't analyze every imbalance if 4E wasn't so naked in its balancing mechanism. A chicken and the egg thing.A 3E spellcaster could theoretically do all of these better with magic, but practically, a) needs access to the applicable spells, b) has to prepare for those spells in advance, c) requires spells components, d) and risks spell-casting being interrupted.&nbsp;If I'm strong, I can open a jar with pure strength. If I'm weak, I can still open the jar with a towel, a sink, and hot water, in the right place and time. In modern life, those 2 approaches are net-balanced.&nbsp;I see a wizard as a &quot;cheater&quot; of nature, using magic to open that jar, but needs to prep for it in advance and doesn't always succeed. Whereas a thief is naturally and immediately and consistently able to be sneaky, pick locks, etc. Theoretically, I see that as balanced, and it's just a question of tweaking the dial, rather than removing the entire kitchen.&nbsp;Personally, subjectively, IMO, I won't play 4E if it acts like a communist teacher who perceives unfairness in the playground and reacts by taking away all the toys, (then charging 10,000 gp for one use of a toy).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="NoWayJose, post: 5537278, member: 84810"] I agree with everything you wrote, about the contrast between 3e vs 4e, and a theoretical sweet spot inbetween, and that 4E is somewhat fetishistic about balance, which is a really good way of articulating it for me, because if someone has a "fetish", it's very difficult to sway them (although one could argue that I have a "fetish" towards versimilitude, immersion, fiction-first, etc. which is possible, except that I didn't successfully force my fetish on anyone, I just stopped playing). Maybe that's not WoTC's onus if players themselves analyze and report every imbalance, but maybe the players wouldn't analyze every imbalance if 4E wasn't so naked in its balancing mechanism. A chicken and the egg thing. A 3E spellcaster could theoretically do all of these better with magic, but practically, a) needs access to the applicable spells, b) has to prepare for those spells in advance, c) requires spells components, d) and risks spell-casting being interrupted. If I'm strong, I can open a jar with pure strength. If I'm weak, I can still open the jar with a towel, a sink, and hot water, in the right place and time. In modern life, those 2 approaches are net-balanced. I see a wizard as a "cheater" of nature, using magic to open that jar, but needs to prep for it in advance and doesn't always succeed. Whereas a thief is naturally and immediately and consistently able to be sneaky, pick locks, etc. Theoretically, I see that as balanced, and it's just a question of tweaking the dial, rather than removing the entire kitchen. Personally, subjectively, IMO, I won't play 4E if it acts like a communist teacher who perceives unfairness in the playground and reacts by taking away all the toys, (then charging 10,000 gp for one use of a toy). [/QUOTE]

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