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<blockquote data-quote="UngeheuerLich" data-source="post: 8250050" data-attributes="member: 59057">Ok... so both cleric players know what they are doing. It is always difficult to compete with such people <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Regarding the illusionist, I guess you are underestimating the utility. We are playing an exploration absed campaign and my bard is getting a lot of mileage out of his major image and his ritual caster feat. A specialized illusionist should be able to get even more mileage out of that spell.Drow don´t have special defenses vs. illusions as it is not a saving throw. My bard used the spell vs drows.Also you shouldnever forget, that in 5e an illusionis is still a wizard with an endless array of spells and utility.But that ship has sailed. So you might present my solution to the sorcerer in question. You might allow him to swap one or the other spell. What I said for the wizard above is also true for the sorcerer. Even though you specialize in fire, how many different spells do you need?Chromatic orb is a good utility spell, that even can be twinned. Usually it is set on fire damage, but it is adaptable.Look for twinnable buffs or debuffs. Twin spell can circumvent the concentration restriction which is a great tool. (I mentioned haste above, but there are other spells which can shake up the action economy (leviate is a very nasty debuff, especially in combination with zone spells.Lift 2 people 1 ft above the ground and you have set them up for hurt, it doubles as a nice utility spell).Generally a sorcerer should look for spells, that are generally useful in many situations.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="UngeheuerLich, post: 8250050, member: 59057"] Ok... so both cleric players know what they are doing. It is always difficult to compete with such people ;) Regarding the illusionist, I guess you are underestimating the utility. We are playing an exploration absed campaign and my bard is getting a lot of mileage out of his major image and his ritual caster feat. A specialized illusionist should be able to get even more mileage out of that spell. Drow don´t have special defenses vs. illusions as it is not a saving throw. My bard used the spell vs drows. Also you shouldnever forget, that in 5e an illusionis is still a wizard with an endless array of spells and utility. But that ship has sailed. So you might present my solution to the sorcerer in question. You might allow him to swap one or the other spell. What I said for the wizard above is also true for the sorcerer. Even though you specialize in fire, how many different spells do you need? Chromatic orb is a good utility spell, that even can be twinned. Usually it is set on fire damage, but it is adaptable. Look for twinnable buffs or debuffs. Twin spell can circumvent the concentration restriction which is a great tool. (I mentioned haste above, but there are other spells which can shake up the action economy (leviate is a very nasty debuff, especially in combination with zone spells. Lift 2 people 1 ft above the ground and you have set them up for hurt, it doubles as a nice utility spell). Generally a sorcerer should look for spells, that are generally useful in many situations. [/QUOTE]

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