D&D 5E How Is This Balanced?

Zardnaar

Legend
This comment was made by a Dragon Sorcerer in regards to a Light Cleric and Sorc1/Twilight Cleric. All PCs are level 8.

We only have 1 dedicated front line type in the party a paladin with a Ranged rogue rounding out the party.

To be fair I regard a Dragon Sorcerer as B tier Sorcerer and those two clerics as S tier.

Anyway the twilight cleric tends to wade into melee combat and the light cleric started as a ranged PC but has kind of copied the twilight clerics spells.

Both clerics are wisdom based and use spiritual weapon/guardians, guiding Bolt, toll the dead and inflict woubds.The MC one uses booming blade.

Not much is resistant to necrotic/radiant/force.

The fire Sorcerer is exactly that and has encounteed fire resistant critters and isn't good in melee.

One of the clerics players is also not the best skill wise the Dragon Sorcerer not so much.

Anyway ideas? I'm thinking of tweaking some of the encounters so the fire Sorcerer won't be so screwed but the big bad is still a fire giant. He can also cast haste or twin it.

Normally a you broke it you buy it type DM but getting soft in old age.
 

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tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
This comment was made by a Dragon Sorcerer in regards to a Light Cleric and Sorc1/Twilight Cleric. All PCs are level 8.

We only have 1 dedicated front line type in the party a paladin with a Ranged rogue rounding out the party.

To be fair I regard a Dragon Sorcerer as B tier Sorcerer and those two clerics as S tier.

Anyway the twilight cleric tends to wade into melee combat and the light cleric started as a ranged PC but has kind of copied the twilight clerics spells.

Both clerics are wisdom based and use spiritual weapon/guardians, guiding Bolt, toll the dead and inflict woubds.The MC one uses booming blade.

Not much is resistant to necrotic/radiant/force.

The fire Sorcerer is exactly that and has encounteed fire resistant critters and isn't good in melee.
It's only going to get worse & that goes double if you are playing descent into avernus.
 

J-H

Hero
Add the missing subclass spells to the pre-Tasha's subclasses and let the sorc re-pick afterwards. That fixes quite a bit.

Also, I as a DM am not going to allow Twilight or Peace clerics in my games, or at least not without some nerfs.
 


When the Fire Sorceror first posited their character, did the DM warn them that the adventure was written so as to negate a lot of their capabilities?

Do they just play as a ranged blaster, or do they also cover some of the utilities that the clerics can't?
There is the feat that allows you to ignore resistance. Granting that capability in an item or divine blessing could be an option. Or speaking of divine blessings, one that converts some fire damage to radiant or similar could work.

Or just adjust some of the monsters. If the demons are from a plane of darkness and death rather than hellfire, maybe give them resistance/immunity to poison and necrotic damage rather than fire.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
When the Fire Sorceror first posited their character, did the DM warn them that the adventure was written so as to negate a lot of their capabilities?

Do they just play as a ranged blaster, or do they also cover some of the utilities that the clerics can't?
There is the feat that allows you to ignore resistance. Granting that capability in an item or divine blessing could be an option. Or speaking of divine blessings, one that converts some fire damage to radiant or similar could work.

Or just adjust some of the monsters. If the demons are from a plane of darkness and death rather than hellfire, maybe give them resistance/immunity to poison and necrotic damage rather than fire.

I'm the DM. He wanted to play an illusionist which I suggested would be bad.

Last minute change to Sorcerer.


I think I listed fire giants on the players guide.
 

I'm the DM. He wanted to play an illusionist which I suggested would be bad.

Last minute change to Sorcerer.


I think I listed fire giants on the players guide.
Why did you suggest, that an illusionist is bad?

That aside, a fire dragon sorcerer with twinned haste and so on can actually still be decent just by hasting the paladin and tge rogue while making sure that they can keep concentration up.
It is just psychologically necessary to credit all that damage to them instead of the paladin and rogue.
While keeping haste up, the sorcerer can still blast enemies with non fire spells (chromatic orb set to ice damage should help) and the built in fire resistance for the sorcerer might also come in handy.

So what you might want to do is making sure the sorcerer uses their full arsenal, and make sure, they are credited for what they are doing.
Con saving throw proficiency also helps keeping up haste. Usually the clerics do struggle although the sorc1/clericX might have thought about that.

Edit: do you play spirit guardians right?
I. e. only damaging once at the start of someone's turn, not when the cleric goes into melee.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Why did you suggest, that an illusionist is bad?

That aside, a fire dragon sorcerer with twinned haste and so on can actually still be decent just by hasting the paladin and tge rogue while making sure that they can keep concentration up.
It is just psychologically necessary to credit all that damage to them instead of the paladin and rogue.
While keeping haste up, the sorcerer can still blast enemies with non fire spells (chromatic orb set to ice damage should help) and the built in fire resistance for the sorcerer might also come in handy.

So what you might want to do is making sure the sorcerer uses their full arsenal, and make sure, they are credited for what they are doing.
Con saving throw proficiency also helps keeping up haste. Usually the clerics do struggle although the sorc1/clericX might have thought about that.

Edit: do you play spirit guardians right?
I. e. only damaging once at the start of someone's turn, not when the cleric goes into melee.

Yes we play it right. Both clerics have warcaster, the Sorcerer/Cleric is proficient in con saves.

I suggested the illusionist will be bad due to things like mind flayers and Drow, exploration themed less social stuff etc.
 

Yes we play it right. Both clerics have warcaster, the Sorcerer/Cleric is proficient in con saves.

I suggested the illusionist will be bad due to things like mind flayers and Drow, exploration themed less social stuff etc.
Ok... so both cleric players know what they are doing. It is always difficult to compete with such people ;)

Regarding the illusionist, I guess you are underestimating the utility. We are playing an exploration absed campaign and my bard is getting a lot of mileage out of his major image and his ritual caster feat. A specialized illusionist should be able to get even more mileage out of that spell.
Drow don´t have special defenses vs. illusions as it is not a saving throw. My bard used the spell vs drows.
Also you shouldnever forget, that in 5e an illusionis is still a wizard with an endless array of spells and utility.

But that ship has sailed. So you might present my solution to the sorcerer in question. You might allow him to swap one or the other spell. What I said for the wizard above is also true for the sorcerer. Even though you specialize in fire, how many different spells do you need?
Chromatic orb is a good utility spell, that even can be twinned. Usually it is set on fire damage, but it is adaptable.
Look for twinnable buffs or debuffs. Twin spell can circumvent the concentration restriction which is a great tool. (I mentioned haste above, but there are other spells which can shake up the action economy (leviate is a very nasty debuff, especially in combination with zone spells.
Lift 2 people 1 ft above the ground and you have set them up for hurt, it doubles as a nice utility spell).
Generally a sorcerer should look for spells, that are generally useful in many situations.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Ok... so both cleric players know what they are doing. It is always difficult to compete with such people ;)

Regarding the illusionist, I guess you are underestimating the utility. We are playing an exploration absed campaign and my bard is getting a lot of mileage out of his major image and his ritual caster feat. A specialized illusionist should be able to get even more mileage out of that spell.
Drow don´t have special defenses vs. illusions as it is not a saving throw. My bard used the spell vs drows.
Also you shouldnever forget, that in 5e an illusionis is still a wizard with an endless array of spells and utility.

But that ship has sailed. So you might present my solution to the sorcerer in question. You might allow him to swap one or the other spell. What I said for the wizard above is also true for the sorcerer. Even though you specialize in fire, how many different spells do you need?
Chromatic orb is a good utility spell, that even can be twinned. Usually it is set on fire damage, but it is adaptable.
Look for twinnable buffs or debuffs. Twin spell can circumvent the concentration restriction which is a great tool. (I mentioned haste above, but there are other spells which can shake up the action economy (leviate is a very nasty debuff, especially in combination with zone spells.
Lift 2 people 1 ft above the ground and you have set them up for hurt, it doubles as a nice utility spell).
Generally a sorcerer should look for spells, that are generally useful in many situations.

Preaching to the choir;) Sorcerer player not as experienced. He does have chromatic orb and haste.

Light cleric kinda similar but smart enough to copy the other cleric at least with basic spells.
 

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