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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8250321" data-attributes="member: 93670">To a degree wotc strongly pushes this in 5e.&nbsp; With few exceptions (almost all of which are )&quot;<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/177-spell-spotlight-fireball" target="_blank">iconic</a>&quot; spells like lightning bolt the majority of damage spells that aren't fire are&nbsp; lower damage or much lower damage with a debuff that may or may not &amp; rarely will rise above being questionably useful in some contrived situation.&nbsp; The exceptions that exist are often spread around randomly with no meaningful progression even if you include the lemons. A lot of the spells in tasha's are better but still mechanically function as if 5e is heavy LFQW rather than gross lwqf for damage output so often wind up feeling like they fall short in petty ways&nbsp; for damage nondamage &amp; specially hybrid spells.&nbsp;&nbsp; Take mindsliver for exampleit has a blisteringly short duration debuff that might be mildly useful in a caster heavy party thick on save or x attacks and damage that look like [spoiler=&quot;this&quot;][ATTACH=full]135752[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]135753[/ATTACH][/spoiler]The damage is so bad the only purpose it serves is keeping it from being a good debuff that doesn't deal damage &amp; the debuff so minor on top of short lived the inverse is true for the damage.&nbsp; You can see this kind of thing play out again &amp; again <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/fireball.679370/post-8245955" target="_blank">even in leveled spells</a>.&nbsp; It's not a case of advanced math is hard, it's a case of &quot;someone quit doing the trivial simple math long ago &amp; wotc has been perpetuating a myth carried over from past editions where it was true&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8250321, member: 93670"] To a degree wotc strongly pushes this in 5e. With few exceptions (almost all of which are )"[URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/177-spell-spotlight-fireball']iconic[/URL]" spells like lightning bolt the [I]majority[/I] of damage spells that aren't fire are lower damage or much lower damage with a debuff that may or may not & rarely will rise above being questionably useful in some contrived situation. The exceptions that exist are often spread around randomly with no meaningful progression even if you include the lemons. A lot of the spells in tasha's are better but still mechanically function as if 5e is heavy LFQW rather than gross lwqf for damage output so often wind up feeling like they fall short in petty ways for damage nondamage & specially hybrid spells. Take mindsliver for example it has a blisteringly short duration debuff that might be mildly useful in a caster heavy party thick on save or x attacks and damage that look like [spoiler="this"][ATTACH type="full"]135752[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full"]135753[/ATTACH] [/spoiler] The damage is so bad the only purpose it serves is keeping it from being a good debuff that doesn't deal damage & the debuff so minor on top of short lived the inverse is true for the damage. You can see this kind of thing play out again & again [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/fireball.679370/post-8245955']even in leveled spells[/URL]. It's not a case of advanced math is hard, it's a case of "someone quit doing the trivial simple math long ago & wotc has been perpetuating a myth carried over from past editions where it was true" [/QUOTE]

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