D&D 4E How Maddman (plans) to fix 4e

[Alex319]

Using Wounds

The wound penalty does not apply whenever the character takes any action. The player decides when it is dramatically appropriate to have his injury come into play. If the character takes the penalty due to his injury on an action in combat and fails at that action that he otherwise would have succeeded, he gains an Action Point. If he takes the penalty in a noncombat situation, or it negatively impacts him in a roleplaying situation, the character gains a Plot Point. The character can only gain one Plot or Action Point per encounter or scene. This isn't a free source of points, however. The character does not gain plot points by fulfilling his Motivation or playing out his Flaw, and does not receive any action points for completing Milestones or taking Extended Rests. The wound penalty can apply on any action the PC and player agree are appropriate to the wound.

The penalty could be a penalty on ranged attacks for injured eyes, on knowledge based skill checks for concussions, a movement penalty for leg injuries, Endurance penalty for bruised ribs, and so on. The penalties aren't fixed, any way the injury could hinder the player is fine so long as the DM agrees. The wound must prevent the character from succeeding or performing an action he would be able to if he didn't have the wound penalty. For example, he takes a -2 on his attack roll and gets a 17 total, when the opponent's AC is 18. The DM informs him that he missed and awards an action point. For movement based penalties, the character gains a plot point if the reduced movement prevents them from avoiding or making an attack.

The bolded part does seem to potentially cause problems. Essentially you can't get action or plot points the normal way once you're wounded? This could potentially be a very harsh penalty, especially at high levels when action points are more important. It might even mean that an irritating (-1) wound would be worse to have than a crippling (-4) wound, because the irritating wound prevents you from getting APs and PPs the normal way but is so small it is unlikely to provide many APs and PPs on its own.

This system might also lead to metagaming - players could intentionally put themselves into situations where their wounds would hurt them so that they can "farm" APs and PPs. This would be more likely with the bolded part because it means that doing this is the only way they can get APs and PPs.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Just for the record, Maddman's girlfriend is blisteringly hot, in case that has any bearing on how you view his house rules here.

I liked his house rules already, but thanks for the icing of the cake..

They seem to be well thought out - even if Alex319 observation probably needs to be taken into account.

 

[maddman75]

I liked his house rules already, but thanks for the icing of the cake..

If it makes it any better, I got with her because I'm such an awesome GM. Go ahead, contemplate that.


The point about the wounds is the biggest concern that I have. I want the wounds rather than be something that cripples the character or leads to a death spiral to be something they can deal with in an interesting way. So if they take the penalty and miss from it, it brings into play 'oh yes I've still got that bum leg from where the bulette chewed on me'. But I don't want to go too far, so that being wounded is better than not being wounded. And especially not to where a crippling wound is better than a minor one.

I think I'll have the wounds give you a bonus plot point. Action points have a very careful economy I don't want to mess with. And I really don't mind the PCs having plenty of plot points.

Maybe I'll have it so they can attempt to get a plot point once per encounter with their wound. That would prevent farming, and make it more of an occasional add-on.

 

[Totte]

Deja vu

Hello,

I just must say it sounds like you have been playing James Bond 007, your fix sounds a lot like the "Hero Point System" they used in that game, which is one of the things I like in that game. Think fast, spend hero points, and your wild idea might come to life.

Translated to 4E, it would work something like you have described, you get access to an item you desperately need, or you have an important powerful NPC "saving the day" (which in James Bond gave 50% experience but the PCs lived to see another day).

Cheers,

/ Totte

 

[Irda Ranger]

I really like the Plot Points, especially how they're earned. Reminds me of Burning Wheel's artha.

I'm much more "eh" on the wounds. I see what you're trying to do, but I'd probably just apply the penalty to all rolls until they're Healed. I go for grittier gaming and my solution to avoiding the Death Spiral is "Well you better get your ass back to the Keep and rest up, shouldn't you?" If the PCs have done their job there should always be an avenue of retreat.

Of course, sometimes you can't retreat and you have to go all in and pray for the inside flush. But that's what makes life interesting.

 

[maddman75]

I really like the Plot Points, especially how they're earned. Reminds me of Burning Wheel's artha.

I'm much more "eh" on the wounds. I see what you're trying to do, but I'd probably just apply the penalty to all rolls until they're Healed. I go for grittier gaming and my solution to avoiding the Death Spiral is "Well you better get your ass back to the Keep and rest up, shouldn't you?" If the PCs have done their job there should always be an avenue of retreat.

Of course, sometimes you can't retreat and you have to go all in and pray for the inside flush. But that's what makes life interesting.

Yeah, but in general I don't care for death spirals. Even for gritty games, I'd rather the PCs just get taken out rather than a slow degradation of ability (BRP CoC). And no version of D&D is gritty IMO, especially not 4e. But I'm not happy with the wounds yet either. Couple more ideas

Out of Combat Only - The wound penalties only apply outside of combat. The PC is slower moving, or gets a penalty to a skill check, or whatever. In combat, adrenaline and the life or death struggle take over and the PC ignores the wound. This is nice and simple, and doesn't risk screwing up the combat system.

Autofail for points - Rather than have the rating determine the penalty, the character must fail a roll after it succeeded to gain a Plot Point. They do this once for a level 1 wound, four times for a level 4 wound to get the point. They can at most gain one Plot Point this way per milestone. This keeps them from farming points, and makes the more severe wound appear more often, if the PC wants the plot point.

My overall goal is to turn the wound from a death spiral to a complication - something that makes the PC's life more complicated but doesn't drag them down overall.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Eh, I don't know, I'd just be inclined to say that in any given encounter situation if the player WANTS to invoke the wound, then they can get a plot/action point from that, but it is an either/or choice on an encounter by encounter basis.

Yeah, they will 'farm' a BIT, but in the case of APs you can only normally have one anyway, or at most 2 or 3 (and 3 is pretty darn rare). Given that it is more a plot advancement and fluff kind of thing than intended to be a real penalty that doesn't bother me as long as they don't on average get MORE points than the non wounded people. Limit it to 1 per encounter and it should be fine. As for plot points that's hard to gauge. I would think you'd want them as strictly controlled as APs but I'd have to play with the system to know for sure. Definitely some food for thought here .