How many arrows can hit a square?

[Stalker0]

I don't need any convincing to know mass archers can be threatening, I just need to know how threatening.

My 22nd level party is going against 1 million men. That's right, 1 million. So I need to know how much damage those guys can do.

Btw, to stop the flurry of (their epic, don't bother), I'm using AE rules, so my epic party is a lot less epic than you expect. They don't have the invincibility of high level 3.5 magic. Still, I think they will do just fine. I have my own rules for covering the damage, just trying to see how many shots I can take at them

 

[frankthedm]

I have my own rules for covering the damage, just trying to see how many shots I can take at them

Depends on how many archers one can pack into a 5' square and How close the PCs sre to the formation?

An archer really does not need 5' to shoot so I'd say 2 archers to a 5' would be able to shoot without penalty in a mass formation.

These are rough numbers...

1000 archers can take shots on targets within 1000'
3200 archers can take shots on targets within 900'
5800 archers can take shots on targets within 800'
8800 archers can take shots on targets within 700'
12200 archers can take shots on targets within 600'
16000 archers can take shots on targets within 500'
19800 archers can take shots on targets within 400'
See below for the image i used to approximate these numbers

 

[Veril]

Assume only a 20 hits.
Assume only 1 in 20 of those crits
Assume a Str 14 archer with a composit bow (1D8+2 damage).

On average a hit does 6.5 + (6.5*2/20 extra for the crit) damage = 7.15 damage.

The average archer doee 7.15/20 1 in 20 hits) damage per round to any AC . i.e. the average arcer does 0.3575pts of damage per round

To kill a player in 1 round with archery fire you need to shoot them with HP/0.3575 archers.

That's pretty much Character HP*3 archers.

So to kill Bob the 200hp fighter have 600 archers shoot at him in 1 round. On average he dies. roling D20 600 times will produce pretty much average results.

That's a 1 round kill. To kill in 2 rounds you only need 300 archers. And the range penalties are irrelevant as only 20's hit and only 20-20 crits. Bows can hit at up to 10 range incriments, that's like 1500ft.

An archer unit 30 squares wide by 20 squares deep can kill Bob the 200hp fighter in 1 round.

 

[Umbran]

Depends on how many archers one can pack into a 5' square and How close the PCs sre to the formation?

An archer really does not need 5' to shoot so I'd say 2 archers to a 5' would be able to shoot without penalty in a mass formation. [/qutoe]

If they are all nocked and ready, perhaps. But you'll find it nigh impossible to fight a battle that tightly packed - these people do have ot move some, and bundles of arrows must get through the formation for them to reload, and so forth. Not to mention that packign them tighter makes them more vulnerable to area-of-effect spells...

Mind you, discussion of real-world possibilities are perhaps not relevant. The rules have one person per 5' square, and I can't think of a reason why we should violate that here, but not elsewhere. Why the special case now?

 

[pawsplay]

I don't need any convincing to know mass archers can be threatening, I just need to know how threatening.

My 22nd level party is going against 1 million men. That's right, 1 million. So I need to know how much damage those guys can do.

With that many, I'd just define squares as being under "arrow fire," probably about 5d6+5, Reflex 20 half, until you get down to the last few hundred soldiers.

 

[frankthedm]

Mind you, discussion of real-world possibilities are perhaps not relevant. The rules have one person per 5' square, and I can't think of a reason why we should violate that here, but not elsewhere. Why the special case now?

Because most formations I have seen don't give each man a his own 5' cube and the rules do acknowledge real world situations for placement. An archer who is only firing his bow will need nowhere near as much fighting space as someone swinging a great sword. I would definitely say the archers are eating the -4 AC and -4 to any melee attacks they make{penalties from the rules on squeezing].

Moving Around In Squares
In general, when the characters aren’t engaged in round-by-round combat, they should be able to move anywhere and in any manner that you can imagine real people could. A 5-foot square, for instance, can hold several characters; they just can’t all fight effectively in that small space. The rules for movement are important for combat, but outside combat they can impose unnecessary hindrances on character activities.

Even a 2 to the square, more can still move through the formation for suplies.

If the Arcana Unearthed setting has less supermagic than a D&D setting, packed formations start becoming a bit more viable.

And remember, if the 2 to a square is too tight, then halve the numbers.
1000 archers can take shots on targets within 1000'
3200 archers can take shots on targets within 900'
5800 archers can take shots on targets within 800'
8800 archers can take shots on targets within 700'
12200 archers can take shots on targets within 600'
16000 archers can take shots on targets within 500'
19800 archers can take shots on targets within 400'
23600 archers can take shots on targets within 300'
27800 archers can take shots on targets within 200'
32000 archers can take shots on targets within 100'
If the army does not mind killing itself as most the arrows rain back down, 64800 archers can take shots on targets above the army.

 

[Stalker0]

I have no intention of violating standard dnd rules. 1 man per 5 foot square is what I'll use.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Yeah, I'd say for argument's sake just use one man per 5-foot square.

 

[Derren]

Before you go running for a Heroes of Battle copy, be aware that the combat system in HoB is very different than in normal D&D. When you use HoB rules you can do thinks which go against the normal D&D combat rules.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Before you go running for a Heroes of Battle copy, be aware that the combat system in HoB is very different than in normal D&D.

It is? Seems pretty much standard D&D to me. If it's different, it's b/c it's providing mechanics for something that doesn't otherwise have them.