How many core classes can we expected in 4th ed?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Personally, my money is on the deconstructionist perspective -- breaking down the classes into a master menu of point-weighted items so that characters can be built to a huge range of specialty classes, per level. The core classes may be included as example or for ease-of-play quick picks, but 4th edition will include even more plug-in elements.

I agree- I hope that classes in 4Ed will be more internally flexible, allowing players a choice of class features to customize their PCs without putting the PHB in the blender to have a whole bunch of classes on each PC.

Hopefully, with more flexibility, there will be fewer classes that overlap...

And I hope they either make Psionics core or drop it forever. I'm tired of classes my DMs won't let me use because they're "not Core." If they ARE Core, they'll have to at least give me a good reason not to use them.

That said, I'd be willing to bet that whatever the structure of the classes, there will be somewhere between not enough and too many classes in the PHB.

 

[Ron]

I've no idea of what they are planning, but I would go with four and treat all the rest as prestige classes -- except for a few that might be base classes in specific campaign settings. This would give more control to the GM and allow a simpler game that may help to introduce more people to the hobby.

 

[doghead]

If we had a point-based system for 3e, WotC could not sell books like Complete Warrior or Races of ..., because all the material could be fairly easily cloned from a core book. So 4e will not have point buy. It will have classes.

This is my thinking. As much as I prefer a classless system (I use a jerry-rigged one of my own) it wouldn't make any sense to eliminate them. I wouldn't do it if I were running the shop.

But that said, I would like to see some reduction. 3-6 base classes with numerous advanced classes. The core system would be fairly generic, the supplementary stuff can more setting tailored.

Someone mentioned a the idea of a $20 dollar PHB with just the minimum core material, with other material available in other books. Sound like a good idea.

thotd

 

[blargney the second]

I've noticed that some posters in this thread have expressed concern that a classless system would disadvantage new players. I don't think this is true. If you write something well, anybody can understand it. I'm pretty sure that the writers at Wizards are good enough to explain any well-designed system to new players.

Classes are just pre-specified packages of abilities. Powergamers will powergame with classes or without - just look at Wizards' Character optimization boards. I think it would make D&D a stronger roleplaying environment to be able to create characters with abilities that the player chooses. As far as I can tell, that's sort of the point of an RP system. I can see some ways that modifying or abandoning the class system could help achieve that goal of customizability.

I wonder if some existing D&D players feel that a classless system would put them at a disadvantage?
-blarg

 

[Nyaricus]

If we had a point-based system for 3e, WotC could not sell books like Complete Warrior or Races of ..., because all the material could be fairly easily cloned from a core book. So 4e will not have point buy. It will have classes.

But, don't you see - new abilities that you can choose from will then be the new big thing - on the back of every hardcover there'll be "14 new class abilitites | 28 new feats | 37 new spells | 6 new races" just like there is now. There will always be a new idea like "hmmm, whatcould we do with _____"

Just a thought.

 

[Gundark]

I suspect we'll have the classes that we have always had. Like others have said they are just too D&D to drop.

However I would like to see something along the lines of 4 base generic classes (fighter type, arcane type, healer type, sneaky type) then customizing from there into what you wanted (ie. Thief, Barbarian or whatever).

We're not going to see a pure point buy in D&D for more reasons to list, many have already be mentioned.

I would like to see hit points go away, but I know that is a pipe dream. And to be totally honest I don't have a replacement system in mind.

What I really want to see is a fast NPC generation system, one that gives lots of options. Like Spycraft 2.0 .

 

[Mokona]

I suspect Wizards of the Coast will put out a "basic" D&D core rulebook for 4th edition. Something in between the D&D Basic Game/D&D Player's Kit and the Player's Handbook v.3.5.

In this smaller Player's Handbook I'd expect only the first four classes: fighter, cleric, rogue, and wizard (though they've shown that they feel the sorcerer class is more new player friendly than wizard). On second thought they'll probably replace wizard with sorcerer which breaks with my personal desires based on nostalgia.

Given the success of the Complete series (or even the * [aka splat] books) the very first expansions released for 4th edition will be...

1. Martial Mastery - Sword and Fist, Complete Warrior, Song and Silence, and Complete Adventurer with a little bit of Masters of the Wild all rolled into one. This book would include barbarian, monk, paladin, and ranger. Probably some other stuff as well.

2. Spell Specialists - Defenders of the Faith, Complete Divine, Tome and Blood, Complete Divine, and little bits of Complete Adventurer and Masters of the Wild all rolled into one. This book would include bard, druid, wizard, and some other spellcasters.

Ultimately I expect every single prestige class concept and base class published in 3rd edition and v.3.5 to migrate into 4th edition. By spreading out some of the base stuff from the Player's Handbook into other books Wizards could sell a lot more books.

I didn't include a separate "rogue" focused book nor a "divine/cleric" focused book above because, frankly, they aren't nearly as popular as the fighter and wizard books. After those two books are published a "complete series" book for more narrow specialties could be released for us dedicated players. The equivalent of Complete Warrior II or Player's Guide to Fighters and Barbarians.

PS: I rolled rogues into martial characters because all I ever see rogues do is flank opponents and dish out more damage (with sneak attack dice on primary and off hand weapons) than the party fighter. Except against undead when the rogue player might as well go sit in the corner.

 

[reanjr]

This is from memory, so I may be a bit off on these

D&D: Fighting man, magic user, elf, dwarf, thief (5)
AD&D: Fighter, Mage, Thief, Cleric, Paladin, Cavalier, Bard (7)
AD&D2: Fighter, Ranger, Paladin, Mage, Cleric, Druid, Thief, Bard (8)
D&D3: Fighter, Ranger, Paladin, Barbarian, Cleric, Monk, Druid, Rogue, Bard, Wizard, Sorcerer (11)

About 2 each edition, so I'd say we can expect 13. The current ones plus an unarmored fighting type (swashbuckler) and warlock would be my guess.

 

[Gentlegamer]

This is from memory, so I may be a bit off on these

D&D: Fighting man, magic user, elf, dwarf, thief (5)
AD&D: Fighter, Mage, Thief, Cleric, Paladin, Cavalier, Bard (7)
AD&D2: Fighter, Ranger, Paladin, Mage, Cleric, Druid, Thief, Bard (8)
D&D3: Fighter, Ranger, Paladin, Barbarian, Cleric, Monk, Druid, Rogue, Bard, Wizard, Sorcerer (11)

About 2 each edition, so I'd say we can expect 13. The current ones plus an unarmored fighting type (swashbuckler) and warlock would be my guess.

Your list is a bit off:
D&D: Fighting-man, Cleric, Magic-User (3)
D&D (Greyhawk): add Thief, Paladin (Fighting-man sub-class) (5)
D&D (Blackmoor): add Assassin (Thief sub-class), Druid (Cleric sub-class), Monk (8)
******
AD&D: Fighter (Paladin, Ranger), Cleric (Druid), Thief (Assassin), Magic-user (Illusionist), Monk, Bard (11)
AD&D (Unearthed Arcana):add Cavalier (Paladin), Barbarian (Fighter sub-class), Thief-Acrobat (Thief split-class) (14, Paladin was changed to Cavalier sub-class)
AD&D,2ed: Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Thief, Bard, Cleric, Druid (example of specialty priest), Mage, Illusionist (example of specialist mage) (9)
******
The BECMI series was a different game rather divorced from the above progression.

 

[Frostmarrow]

First of all I think the class count will be pretty high. All game companies loves to print stuff like "twelve classes", "sixty feats", "eight races", and stuff like that on the cover of books. Therefore we won't see three core classes with prestige add-ons.

On the other hand I guess they will still try to make a system with three-four core classes and prestige add-ons. However the add-ons won't just be prestige classes - they will make room for paragons, monster levels, and outsiders.

So maybe we'll see the X-level come along? By X-level I mean a dark seemingly unchartered level that comes after level 1 but before level 2. In the PHB we won't notice the X-level but it will all become clear when the class books arrive.

You see; the X-level will just be a part of the fighter's 1st level. But once you try your hand at creating a drow elf fighter the X-level package becomes lost to you to make room for the unique abilities of a dark, magical and evil race such as the drow. What the X-level package will be I have no idea - and we won't know until the class books appear.

By the same token it will be easy to create cavaliers or ninjas to add to the game. They will just be a fighter minus X plus riding and rogue minus X plus ninja arts.

I think it's safe to say the X-level will be quite powerful to make room for all the neat stuff that is today represented by ECL-races, paragons, prestige classes, extra core classes, and so on. The X-level will atleast be worth a feat and a skillpoint but maybe will include other bonuses as well such as increased carrying capacity and improved ability for natural healing. (That is: stuff adventurers need but NPC's can live without.)