How many Divinations is too many?

[Jovah]

I am a player in a 10th level - plot/story driven campaign.

I am curious how others, especially DMs, feel about the spell Divination.

I don't mind using it occasionally - when the party is truly stuck on what to do next.

But the last few sessions have gone - Divination- get answer that leads to more questions. So que up another Divination and ask again

part of me thinks this keeps the plot going- part of me thinks it is a short cut around a DM's planned plot.

Any thoughts??

 

[Darklone]

Hihihi

In the group where I am gladly allowed to play, our cleric (who always receives missions and drags his chachos along) never uses Divinations. He thinks they are too easy and boring. He likes it the hard way. Example: He dragged a scroll of kinda banish evil cleric along since... 5 years? Never identified nor read it properly. Lately we had a long tough and casualty loaded battle against the archvillain of the group (evil cleric) and finally won. Afterwards he noticed we got that old scroll which would have killed that guy on the spot.

Divinations are that way. You can have it the easy way and noone would think you are a hero

Or maybe you got a RBDM who is able to give you answers to your questions that only lead to more questions (and questioning player faces).

 

[Frostmarrow]

I understand completely. I used to play a cleric of Istus that was called Algan Hibeau. Algan had a Strength of 4 and was as a result utterly useless in a fight. I thought that since I didn't do anything during combat I could aswell shine off-combat so to speak. I used my divinations to great effect and I bragged in character to the other players how I knew everything. I charged them to ask me stuff and I would answer truthfully.

The DM didn't mind. Most DMs I've had the pleasure of gaming with likes to share information. The more you ask the more he'll tell you. However, the other players hated my character for they felt it was too easy to just cast augury or what have you.

This tought me not to rely on divinations. I might use one now and again (you see the DM loves an opportunity to rhyme once in awhile) but most of the time I summon critters nowadays.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Talk to your DM. There have been cases where I wished the players would use something like that, as it would give me an opportunity to nudge them along in the (or at least a more) correct direction, or help move the plot along when it's stalled due to player indecision.

 

[Kraedin]

I don't know how my players would get anywhere without divination.

 

[Vaxalon]

Two words:

TIME PRESSURE.

PC's who are under time threat won't cast divination spells over and over again day after day.

 

[Henry]

It really comes down to - Is your DM prepared to handle a mid to high-level camapign? Any D&D play over 7th level needs its DM to know how to handle:

Divination
Dimension Door
Teleport
Contact other Plane
Commune with Nature
Commune
Plane Shift
Teleport without Error
Gate
Time Stop
Any other spell that breaks major rules about both time and space

THe secret is to not focus on things such as "find the thing/person", or "Get this package to location X in 10 days", or "find and open the planar gate in X days or all is lost." Any location- or knowledge-specific advanture is hampered in such a situation. The secret is to answer without giving away the farm; divination can be quite cryptic, and commune spells are only answered with yes/no questions. IMHO, one question per level is a little too much, but still can be dealt with.

For divination, it's only a more detailed augury, and therefore (a) subject to change, and (b) easy to confuse with if the players aren't paying attention.

 

[Jovah]

The Divinations my character gets are cryptic enough. I am sure much to the DM's glee.

You forgot Dimensional Fold

I know my DM can handle this level of campaign - he has.


I raised the question really more to get a feel from others on the board what they felt about using Divination on a frequent basis.

I am personally taking the stance that because my character is a Priest of Bes (luck god) - the whole idea is to push your luck, not ask your god for all the answers
So I am going to limit my
Divinations to only when we are really stuck for some direction. ie "get a clue"

 

[Piratecat]

I love it when the PCs ask for divinations. I have the quirk of being able to generate bad doggerel on the spot, so they usually get something obscure that rhymes. There's an 805 chance that it's legitimate, but what it says is seldom obvious. It's fun to watch them get interpreted!

As a general rule of thumb, the closer to 01% that the "success" roll is, the clearer the divination.

I build my campaign with the expectation that knowledge-seeking spells will be used. If they aren't, the game gets a lot more challenging.

 

[Forrester]

My current campaign is reaching the level where I have to worry about Divinations and Communes and Legend Lore, and I have to tell you it's got me flustered. I'm not as good at spouting nonsense as Piratecat .

The campaign is very tactical and combat oriented now, but the party is about (they hope) to break into the Underdark, where much more intrigue awaits. Theoretically.

But how do I keep secrets from Divinations and Communes?

"Is the leader of the bugbear camp secretly allied with the Drow?"

"Does this newcomer we're talking to plan to betray us or kill us?"

"Is the item we're looking for in the City? [Yes]
Is it in the North or East end? [No]
Is it in the South end? [Yes]
Is it in . . . . . "

And by the time the Twenty Questions have been answered, they know exactly where to look for what they're looking for.

And that's just the start of my concerns.

My BIG worry doesn't concern the PCs so much as the NPCs, who are often going to be led by someone who has access to higher level divinations than the party.

A couple Legend Lore/Divinations to learn about the party and their allies, or movements, and then one or two Commune spells later, they've been pinpointed. And then, they die.

Resolving Divinations cast by NPCs is going to be tough, because I have to decide whether this 18 or 20 Int friend of the cleric casting the Divinations is going to be able to figure out whatever cryptic clue he'd be entitled to. To be fair, he probably would.


So there you go. How do I preserve intrigue in an environment with high-level divinations, and how do I preserve the party's life against enemies with high-level divinations (who are also more powerful than the party)? Bleah!

My initial thoughts:

1) Make Divinations very vague, and allow one/week.
2) Up the XP cost for Commune, and allow one/week. And make it so that many gods/gods agents don't know the answer to internal questions (who is friends with who, what someone is planning, etc.) I can't believe they'd want to be constantly pestered, anyway.
3) In such an environment (where divinations are *everywhere*), magicks will have been developed to protect one from such divinations, especially while at home. I'll probably make Non-Detection amulets cheap to make/acquire (well, relatively cheap).

(Big One)
4) Create a new magic item/system . . . centered around the idea that it is difficult to create portable powerful magics, easier to create powerful magics that stay in one place.

Possibly because they need a heavy, stable "energy source" to power them. This would allow merchants, nobles, etc. that had such energy sources/built their homes and shops near such energy sources to have access to protective magics that they would not normally be able to afford.

Still playing around with this one.

All I know is that I don't want a world in which every medium-level Good Guy and Bad Guy is scrying and divining so much that there's nothing left to do except teleport and fight, teleport and fight.

I am eagerly waiting to hear ideas from those of you who have already had to deal with these issues.