How many Divinations is too many?

[Victim]

Thankfully, D-Fold has been removed from 3e. I'd say that the spell trivializaed almost all the higher level wizard travel spells, so it's a good thing.

I like to use Divination, however, but the question needs to be phrased properly, it's subject to change, chance of failure, misinterpretation, etc. I like to use it when I'm clueless, or need to confirm something.

Edit:

Forrester, Divination can only ask about a course of action. Also, spells like Mindblank and Nondetection can protect both heroes and targets from excessive divinations and scrying.

 

[Forrester]

Forrester, Divination can only ask about a course of action. Also, spells like Mindblank and Nondetection can protect both heroes and targets from excessive divinations and scrying.

Suppose the party is in The Big City.

Evil Drow Priestess casts Divination "Were we to look in The Big City for _insert party member name here_, would we be successful?"

If the party is in the Big City, the priestess will get a cryptic answer to the effect that she's got a shot. If they party isn't, she'll get a cryptic (or not-so-cryptic) answer that it would be a waste of time. It's not tough to get around the course-of-action clause.

And Mind Blank is 8th level (youch!), making items that give a permanent Mind Blank expensive.
Non-detection allows the Scryer/Diviner to make a check against some DC, or a saving throw, right? So it's imperfect protection.

Coming up with a custom spell or item that gives solid unpierceable Mind Blank protection against scrying/divination is probably going to be one of my first attempted solutions.

 

[Pielorinho]

IIRC, Detect Scrying is pretty good defense. You automatically know when you're being scried (although you don't necessarily have to let the scryer know that you know), it lasts for 24 hours, and you can make an opposed scrying check to see where the scryer is.

Do your players scry on the bad guy? The bad guy makes an opposed scry check and, potentially, shows up in the PCs' sanctum a few rounds later with some friends, courtesy of a teleport spell.

Does the bad guy scry on the players? Same deal.

It definitely makes scrying trickier business. It doesn't, of course, complicate divinations.

I agree that not all gods are omniscient: if you ask questions outside of their field of interest, they may give you really vague answers. Similarly, they may not always be honest with you. A god of luck may give you an answer designed to put you in a situation in which luck plays a big role.

Daniel

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I thought I'd let this thread percolate a little while before weighing in, as I am the DM in Jovah's campaign.

Generally speaking, I have no problem with using the spell relatively often. It has several built in limitations which limit its usefulness in many situations:

• It's limited by the book to one week out. Wanna know who wins the World Series this year? Sorry, all I can tell you is if the Cubs are going to be swept this weekend.
• Cryptic nature/non-specificity.
  
  "How many jellybeans are in that jar?"
  
  "Verily there as many jellybeans as there are empty cubicles at an Enron branch office."
  
  Terribly evocative, and maybe even helpful, but it won't win you that year's free membership at Gold's Gym. You may still need to do some old-fashioned information gathering to get really specific knowledge.
• Non-repeatability. You can only ask the same question once, essentially, and repeated attempts get you the same answer as the first time.
• It's not a sure thing. There's a significant chance of not getting an answer.

By Dinkeldog

There have been cases where I wished the players would use something like that, as it would give me an opportunity to nudge them along in the (or at least a more) correct direction, or help move the plot along when it's stalled due to player indecision.

This is one of the reasons I don't mind it. It can be a DM's best friend in many cases, allowing you the opportunity to both set them on the right track and screw with their heads... All at the same time!

That's a win-win in my book.

By Vaxalon
Two words:

TIME PRESSURE.

This is also a big limitation. I don't keep my players under a constant time crunch all the time, so there can be times where they can do divinations all day long. The one week out limitation takes care of a lot of that, though.

By Piratecat
I love it when the PCs ask for divinations. I have the quirk of being able to generate bad doggerel on the spot, so they usually get something obscure that rhymes. There's an 805 chance that it's legitimate, but what it says is seldom obvious. It's fun to watch them get interpreted!

As a general rule of thumb, the closer to 01% that the "success" roll is, the clearer the divination.

I build my campaign with the expectation that knowledge-seeking spells will be used. If they aren't, the game gets a lot more challenging.

I agree here, although my skill at on-the-spot doggerel is not so hot. If anything I sit there and think "The PC's could figure this out so much quicker if Jovah would just use a divination!" I also use a variant on the 01% = better result, though mostly I use that for Scrying. 01% and you may catch the enemy in the midst of an important strategic discussion. 99% and you may catch him reading a magazine in the loo.

 

[Forrester]

Thought I'd give this a *bump* because I think there's more to be said. Still looking for ideas about how to "protect" parties from enemies that are, overall, higher level, and have powerful divinations, whether it's possible to keep intrigue/secret alliances with divinations, and wondering whether my proposed fixes might seem reasonable to others.