How many monsters do I throw at my group?

[Draconicarmagon]

This is something that has me completely perplexed constantly. Aside from following the CR ratings of monsters and making the occasional mistake, such as tossing a CR 9 Dire shark at my group =p

I'm eternally confused on just how many appropriate level critters I need to send at them for an encounter. Its easier with the lower CR ones, mostly because if they hit the critters their dead in a hit, So I send droves of them at the party.

Currently my crew is sporting a Level 5 party and I was just wondering how many CR 4-6 monsters I should toss at them. If you can give me any other information on running battles too that would be great. I'm more of a role player then tactician =/

 

[Lord Ipplepop]

Re: how many monsters... I usually take into account how my characters are set up and how strong theya re rather than "well, they are this level, and the encounter is that CR, so that means... uh..... I need to put..."
I also, occasionally, give them a fight that they are more than likely going to lose... it is their choice as to whether they stay and fight, or get out of Dodge. Plain and simple: the world is a tough place... ESPECIALLY for adventurers... if they want the big riches, and the glory, then they are going to ahve to deal with the fact that they aren't always the toughest critter on the plains.

As for running the combat... I always treat my monsters with respect that all too many players tend to refuse to allow them.
When I put a particular encounter in a particular spot (or it is in a pre-made), I try to determine WHY it is there, and what reason that particular monster would have for being there, and why it would even care what is in the vacinity.
I look over the listing in the MM (whichever one it's in) or at the character sheet I have designed for it and take special note of any special abilities, any nasty attacks, their alignment... and let them use them all. If the creatures usually attack from the shawods by throwing nets at the characters, then they DO IT!!!!
The monsters are there to survive as much as the characters, and I play them as if they were my chaeracter (which, they are).
I also do all combat rolls, saves, etc in the open for the players to see... that way I cannot be accused of cheating the dice. If the rolls go against the players, then... well... they just do occasionally.

Hope it helps

 

[Dandu]

To calibrate, first throw all of the monsters at the group. Then subtract 1 from the next encounter, and so on until the challenge reaches an acceptable difficulty.

 

[Sorrowdusk]

If the group is about 4 PCs and they are lvl 5, a single CR 5 by itself (like a wraith or a mummy) is just that...challenge enough for a single encounter of which (assuming they are at party lvl) the party could have 4 at lvl encounters per day; the assumption being an encounter at-lvl hypothetically uses 20% of their daily resources. Albeit you dont have to run every encounter at that lvl it could be lower or up to say +2 lvls above. If you're running a CR 5 encounter you could also use say 2x CR 3 which is = one CR5 for example.

Also if you dont want to fool with the chart in the DMG there's this.

The problem with using 1 big monster sometimes is that he
A) Gets surrounded
B) Has a limited # of actions compared to the TOTAL party.
Throw in some subordinates that dont raise the CR or dont raise it much.

Also This

As far as I can tell, everybody misread the rulebook. Here's what the 3rd Edition Dungeon Master's Guide had to say about "Encounters and Challenge Ratings" (pg. 100):

A monster's Challenge Rating (CR) tells you the level of the party for which the monster is a good challenge. A monster of CR 5 is an appropriate challenge for four 5th-level characters. If the characters are higher level than the monster, they get fewer XP because the monster should be easier to defeat. Likewise, if the party level [....] is lower than the monster's Challenge Rating, the PCs get a greater reward.

And a little later it answered the question "What's Challenging?" (pg. 101):
Since every game session probably includes many encounters, you don't want to make every encounter one that taxes the PCs to their limits. They would have to stop the adventure and rest for an extensive period after every fight, and that slows down the game. An encounter with an Encounter Level (EL) equal to the PCs' level is one that should expend about 20% of their resources -- hit points, spells, magic item uses, etc. This means, on average, that after about four encounters of the party's level the PCs need to rest, heal, and regain their spells. A fifth encounter would probably wipe them out.

And, at that point, everybody apparently stopped reading. Because this was what seeped into the collective wisdom of the gaming community: Every encounter should have an EL equal to the party's level and the party should have four encounters per day.

I literally can't understand how this happened, because the very next paragraph read:

The PCs should be able to take on many more encounters lower than their level but fewer encounters with Encounter Levels higher than their party level. As a general rule, if the EL is two lower than the party's level, the PCs should be able to take on twice as many encounters before having to stop and rest. Two levels below that, and the number of encounters they can cope with doubles again, and so on.

And if that wasn't clear enough in saying that the PCs should be facing a wide variety of ELs, the very next page had a chart on it that said 30% of the encounters in an adventure should have an EL lower than the PCs' level; 50% should have an EL equal to the PCs' level; 15% should have an EL 1 to 4 higher than the PCs' level; and 5% should have an EL 5+ higher than the PCs' level.

(Oh and on that last line? Sometimes, but not often the PCs should run away.)

@Draconicarmagon

 

[Sekhmet]

For a group (4 players) of level 5 (assuming standard group makeup of; caster, healer, specialist, front line fighter), a challenging enemy might be CR6 or 7. The average encounter should be a CR 5 monster (Or two to three CR 4's, four to six CR 3, seven to thirteen CR 2, or fourteen to eighteen CR 1 to 1/2.)

I tend to put it like this: Each monster type has a point value that I add to the total value of the encounter. Casters are 3, non casters are 2, creatures that advance with class levels get 1.
I add these numbers to their CR, add all the enemy's CR's together. If you want a very challenging encounter, divide by the number of party members. For a hard encounter, number of party members +1, for an average encounter add 2, for an easy encounter add 3.

For instance, 3 Ogres (CR3 + 2 for non-caster x 3) and one Ogre Magi (CR 8 + 3 for caster) is a 25 point encounter. Since the Ogre Magi is CR 8 (which is on the high end of what a CR5 group should fight), this is a very challenging fight. Divide 25 by 4 and you get 8~.
An encounter 3 or more points above the group's CR is most likely going to end in one or more people dieing.

Removing one Ogre (5 points, for a total of 20 points) brings this encounter to a 5, which will make it appropriate for that level, as a challenging fight.

Always use the highest CR creature in your enemy list to determine how difficult the challenge will be. This system will only work if you have an idea of what is TOO MUCH already.