How many orcs to defeat a fighter type?

[Lord Vangarel]

Let's say you have a bunch of 1hd warrior type monsters (orcs, goblins, etc) who are facing off against a mid/high level fighter type (say at least 5th level+) with full plate, shield, dex bonus, and magic bonus of +1 giving him an AC somewhere up in the low 20's. According to strict interpretation of combat the character isn't going to get hit that often so as long as he doesn't let them get behind him will probably take quite a lot of them down.

The problem is I don't think the monsters should queue up nicely waiting their turn to be hacked down or cleaved. I think one tactic they could use would be to rush forward and overwhelm the character in a mass of bodies. Sure some of them would get hurt but a lot less than standing their waiting to be hacked/cleaved.

So does anyone know the rules for this behaviour? Is it grappling, how many can effectively grapple at once? If more jump on top after the initial grapple what happens then?

 

[rushlight]

Don't forget the "aid attack/defense" rules. Each attacker who chooses "aid attack" and hits an AC of 10 adds +1 (or +2, I can't recall right now, but when I'm home from work I'll check if no one else has posted it) to the attack of one other. The "aid defense" allows adding to AC of one creature in the same manner.

Several weaker creatures could gang up, aid attack, and allow one to get through with an attack. Sure, a high level fighter could probably take down two or three a round (or more with advanced feats) eventually being completely overwelmed will begin to hurt.

 

[Plane Sailing]

He could be grappled by eight at once (if he has combat reflexes the're cooked, but hey, let the feat do its work if he has it!)

Rather than roll all 8 separately I'd probably either do two groups of 4 or one group of 8 - with the extra members of the group each doing "aid another" to get a +2 bonus. If all successfully aid, then the main grapple attack is at +14 to hit (and I would rule +14 to the grapple check too). Good chance of pinning him that way.

Incidentally if 1 orc Ftr is CR1, then 8 would be CR4, wouldn't they? Against a party of four 5th levels it would be a bit of a challenge but not much... against a single 5th level character he could be in for serious trouble. That would be the case above, I think. If the 5th level fighter gets in an early hit or AoO with great cleave, he could finish them all off quickly. On the other hand, if they grab him first and roll well, its off to the cookpot for him!

Cheers

 

[Darklone]

Wowowow... Did this more than once. Hobgoblin phalanxes with longspears and some warriors with tower shields

A few simple tricks: PlaneSailing already mentioned the aid another tactic: Now do this with longspears , you'll get several guys with huge boni.

Another trick: Take 5 guys with longspears and trip the enemy fighter. One will succeed.
Then let some others who delayed charge at the prone guy. Or even grapple him.
Orcs are good at that one due to the big damage from greataxes.
Throw big nets over him. Give circumstance boni if 6 guys drop a huge fishernet on the fighter and entangle him inside.

In the meantime block other fighters with a wall of tower shields (full cover will give them no chance to attack their enemies).

Keep several archers in the background split up to avoid heavy casualties due to fireballs and let them whack at the spellcasters. We had a sorcerer once with protection from arrows that didn't last long enough ... Use low level casters with Hold Person and Fear spells against the fighter types.

Use a few lowlevel rogues or lowlevel fighter types between many 1st level warriors. The surprise will be great Especially pairs of rogues tumbling close to the reach weapon fighter of the group and handing him his guts with a few nicely placed sneak attacks lights up your day.

Use badbad tactics like elite hobgoblins dropping to the floor after a fireball and playing dead.

 

[Darkness]

He could be grappled by eight at once (if he has combat reflexes the're cooked, but hey, let the feat do its work if he has it!)

Provided his Dex modifier is at least, say, +3.

 

[dcollins]

Incidentally if 1 orc Ftr is CR1, then 8 would be CR4, wouldn't they?

No, the EL (which is what you mean) goes up by +2 for each doubling of monsters. (DMG p. 101 under "Matched Pair").
If a 1st-level orc warrior is CR 1/2 -- 2 are EL1; 4 are EL3; 8 are EL5.
If a 1st-level orc fighter is CR1 -- - 2 are EL3; 4 are EL5; 8 are EL7 (or possibly -1 each based on Table 4-1).

 

[Lord Ben]

Trip him. That's +4 to attack. That's pretty much the easiest mob tactic and it doesn't provoke an AO. Easier if you use a weapon you can drop instead of be disarmed yourself.

Does the fighter have cleave?

 

[Lord Vangarel]

What I'm trying to envisage is the classic scene where a fighter decides to take a stand against a bunch of low powered foes.

I don't want to use trip necessarily but could see these creatures charging forwards to jump the fighter. After the attacks of opportunity have killed a few the orcs overrun the fighter piling into him (bull rush or grapple). Can the fighter avoid this fate or is it goodbye fighter? Another classic scene is the orcs pile into the fighter burying him beneath them, suddenly with a great show of strength the fighter emerges flinging orcs everywhere as they prepare to try again.

 

[Thanee]

With grappling the chances for the orcs are rather slim, because there are no real penalties to warding off multiple attackers.

Ganging up on a stronger foe is probably best simulated with the aid another tactic as described above.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Happiest_Sadist]

Yes there are consequences to being grappled. You lose your dex bonus while grappled. One orc takes you to the ground, the others stab you in the back.
If you keep a hold of your big weapon, you can't effectivly damage the guy. If you drop it one of the orcs runs off with it.
If two orcs grab you and a third readies an action to grab you when you escape from one, you are locked down and unable to take any actions you can't take in a grapple.