How Many Spells Does a Wizard Need?

[overgeeked]

Wizards only need one spell. “Blow Stuff Up Real Good.”

 

[TheSword]

As we all know (/snark), Gandalf knew only three spells: speak with moths, continual light, and force charm (or was that Obi Wan?). The rest of his magic required his epic-level staff (just ask Wormtongue). So why do some wizards need 10-pound spellbooks? Isn't three spells, plus a staff, enough magic?

The question arises, if you're curious, while I'm looking at the Modos 2 skill system and remembering that a single spell counts as an entire skill; one can gain skill in the casting of a particular spell. But since skill points are hard to come by, spells are traded with scrolls, recorded in spellbooks, and cast from wands (for those still in wizarding school), albeit at lesser proficiency than those with skill.

In addition, a character with only one or two powers might be considered a savant, or supernatural, before being mistaken for a wizard. So how many spells would a spell-slinger sling, if a spell-slinger could sling spells?

None. Need is a high bar to set.

I’m currently playing a wIzard currently who hasn’t learned to cast spells yet.

 

[bloodtide]

As you say - hundreds. But why does one wizard need to know all of them? That's like saying the barbarian needs to carry/own 27 axes with various cutting/cursing/damaging powers.

This part act.depends on your rules, reality, setting and game world.

Gandalf is the wise old one, there to guide and give advice. Gandalf could have just flown over to the Shire on a Giant Eagle and flown the ring over and dropped it in Mt. Doom easy. But he does not. He does the whole "well Frodo guess you gotta walk there" act. And then he acts like he can't use any real magic and lets everyone else "save the world".

Though, of course, Gandalf is not a Wizard....he is an Angel and he is not "allowed" to directly effect the lives of mortals.

And as a character in a typical D&D game, Gandalf would not be a great character. Cast light once, and then just sit around and watch the other players play....is not that much fun. Even if you make him a fighter/mage so he can do two points of damage with a sword.

A wizard with only a couple spells is boring. Even if they are more universal type spells. The wizard can only do a couple tricks once in a while. The rest of the time they sit around and do nothing.

And it is no fun to do nothing.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Fireball solves all problems. Or at least it replaces your old problems with "holy crap, we're stuck in a burning building again."

 

[TheSword]

This part act.depends on your rules, reality, setting and game world.

Gandalf is the wise old one, there to guide and give advice. Gandalf could have just flown over to the Shire on a Giant Eagle and flown the ring over and dropped it in Mt. Doom easy. But he does not. He does the whole "well Frodo guess you gotta walk there" act. And then he acts like he can't use any real magic and lets everyone else "save the world".

Though, of course, Gandalf is not a Wizard....he is an Angel and he is not "allowed" to directly effect the lives of mortals.

And as a character in a typical D&D game, Gandalf would not be a great character. Cast light once, and then just sit around and watch the other players play....is not that much fun. Even if you make him a fighter/mage so he can do two points of damage with a sword.

A wizard with only a couple spells is boring. Even if they are more universal type spells. The wizard can only do a couple tricks once in a while. The rest of the time they sit around and do nothing.

And it is no fun to do nothing.

Gandalf does plenty as I recall. Slays a Balrog, incites multiple expeditions from the shire. Helps slay a cave troll in Moria, kill multiple goblins, orcs. Fights against Nazgûl, advises Theoden after curing him.

Rincewind doesn’t cast spells and yet is anything but boring and he does a lot of stuff.

The suggestion Wizards need spells to do anything is clearly not true. Otherwise no one other than wizards would get to do anything.

 

[bloodtide]

Gandalf does plenty as I recall. Slays a Balrog, incites multiple expeditions from the shire. Helps slay a cave troll in Moria, kill multiple goblins, orcs. Fights against Nazgûl, advises Denethor after curing him.

Rincewind doesn’t cast spells and yet is anything but boring and he does a lot of stuff.

The suggestion Wizards need spells to do anything is clearly not true. Otherwise no one other than wizards would get to do anything.

Well, I'd say your mixing character with wizard.

And would you apply this to others? Say a no weapon fighter or barbarian (and yes, this counts fists and feet as weapons)?

Does John Wick work if he just "talks" to people and never does any violence?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Well, I'd say your mixing character with wizard.

And would you apply this to others? Say a no weapon fighter or barbarian (and yes, this counts fists and feet as weapons)?

Does John Wick work if he just "talks" to people and never does any violence?

John Wick has a super-high Knowledge (Underworld) as well as wealth and gear he's previously squirreled away.

He's a lot more than just a high level assassin.

Similarly, Gandalf has high skills in various knowledges, Persuasion, Arcana, etc., all of which stem either from his wizard class or maiar ancestry.

This argument can obviously be taken to silly extremes (and may already be there), but Gandalf (and John Wick) get a pretty long way without ever using any of their class abilities, relying on their skills instead.

 

[Staffan]

Fireball solves all problems. Or at least it replaces your old problems with "holy crap, we're stuck in a burning building again."

Or as we call it, the Mendoza.

 

[FrogReaver]

As we all know (/snark), Gandalf knew only three spells: speak with moths, continual light, and force charm (or was that Obi Wan?). The rest of his magic required his epic-level staff (just ask Wormtongue). So why do some wizards need 10-pound spellbooks? Isn't three spells, plus a staff, enough magic?

The question arises, if you're curious, while I'm looking at the Modos 2 skill system and remembering that a single spell counts as an entire skill; one can gain skill in the casting of a particular spell. But since skill points are hard to come by, spells are traded with scrolls, recorded in spellbooks, and cast from wands (for those still in wizarding school), albeit at lesser proficiency than those with skill.

In addition, a character with only one or two powers might be considered a savant, or supernatural, before being mistaken for a wizard. So how many spells would a spell-slinger sling, if a spell-slinger could sling spells?

Let’s see. 1-2 defensive. 1-2utility. 2-3 offensive + a couple of cantrips.

4-7 would be bare minimum. Though with spell slots and spell levels a 5e wizard probably needs at least 1 per spell level and a few more at level 1.

So I’ll change my answer. Something like 4 + 9 - 1. So 13ish would be my minimum.

 

[TheSword]

Well, I'd say your mixing character with wizard.

And would you apply this to others? Say a no weapon fighter or barbarian (and yes, this counts fists and feet as weapons)?

Does John Wick work if he just "talks" to people and never does any violence?

A wizard is generally an intelligent character with a fair amount of knowledge based skills and an understanding of how magic works in the world.

You posted this in General TT Discussion so I’m assuming we’re not just talking D&D.

Wizards have weapons. Gandalf has a sword and staff and used both to great effect.

As I said I’m playing a new wizard character and I haven’t learnt any spells yet. I can see magic radiances though, understand much about the world. I have lots of Int based skills and am pretty nifty with a staff. I feel like I can hold my own with the rest of the party.

In a session or two I will probably pick up 4 Petty Spells. In 8 or 9 sessions my first full spell. The idea that you need to be a walking jukebox of spells to play a wizard in general RPGs is just factually untrue. I’m playing in WFRP 4e but I’m sure players of CoC would feel similar.