How much does diamond dust weigh?

[Mercule]

Okay, my wife is creating a high-level cleric and we found that a _lot_ of the spells she wants to use require a significant amount of diamond dust.

In trying to figure out how to carry all this dust, we have run into two gaps in our knowledge.

1) How much does 100 gpv of diamond dust weight?
2) How much space does it take up?

The only clues I have is that 1 lb of silver dust costs 5gp (conversion given in one of the spells). I assume that similarly precious costs could be calculated, but this isn't exactly my field of expertise.

Anyone want to take a stab?

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

My guess is that it would be miniscule.

Assuming that one gets 100 gp of diamond dust by crushing 100 gp worth of diamonds, and that the "standard" diamond is 5,000 gp, you can get a rough idea of the weight. The biggest diamonds in the real world are not much bigger than a ping-pong ball - and those would be multi-hundred carat crown jewel type diamonds, not standard by any means.

At one point I figured out what I thought were reasonable "per carat" values of the major gemstones - I'll look for that and post it when I get home. In the meantime, I'd expect that 100 gp of diamond dust would be less than one carat weight, probably less than half. One carat weighs 200 milligrams.

The pouch you keep it in would weigh more.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Argh. Delayed double post.

 

[The Sigil]

Okay, my wife is creating a high-level cleric and we found that a _lot_ of the spells she wants to use require a significant amount of diamond dust.

In trying to figure out how to carry all this dust, we have run into two gaps in our knowledge.

1) How much does 100 gpv of diamond dust weight?
2) How much space does it take up?

The only clues I have is that 1 lb of silver dust costs 5gp (conversion given in one of the spells). I assume that similarly precious costs could be calculated, but this isn't exactly my field of expertise.

Anyone want to take a stab?

Have a couple of ideas from my e-book, the Enchiridion of Treasures and Objects d'Art:

GEMS
As might be expected, a gem is a precious mineral of some sort, often used in
jewelry. Most gems, when found loose, are about 1/50th of a pound in weight. (The same as a coin) A diamond is approximately half the weight of an equal volume of steel and can be thought of as the “standard” for gem sizes. A one-pound cube of diamond is exactly two inches on a side. A “normal” diamond (1/50th of a pound) is approximately the size of a marble or a gumball.

Diamond
Cost/lb: 250,000
Hardness: 20
Hp/Inch: 15
Description: Diamond comes in nearly every color imaginable, though it tends to be pale to colorless. It has a waxy to adamantine luster and is transparent to translucent.
Essential Power: Diamond promotes the mastery of the environment around the wearer. A bearer of at least 1/50th of a pound of ensorcelled diamond gains a +1 luck bonus to all skill checks. Market Price: +6000 gp, XP to Ensorcel: 240

Given the two statements above (the assumption that a gem is the same weight as a coin - especially when you realize that such a statement makes it marble-sized (much smaller and you'd have a hard time even seeing them) - isn't far fetched and interestingly, it makes a given mass of diamond worth about the same when compared to a given mass of gold in D&D terms as they are today!!! I did do my homework for this book LOL).

So if Diamond costs 250,000 gp/lb. and you need 100 gp worth of diamond, you find that 100 gp worth of diamond dust weighs a whopping 0.0004 lb. That's 0.0064 ounces or about 0.2 grams. For comparison, the common US dime weighs in at 2.268 grams, so it would take 11 pinches at 100 gp each to make the weight of a dime. In other words, it's a very small pinch of dust that would easily fit into a spell component pouch. Take a salt shaker off your kitchen table and give it one shake into your hand... maybe two. That's how much diamond dust is needed.

--The Sigil

 

[Xeriar]

There is the matter of diamonds being more common than quartz.

A 5,000 gp diamond can be as big or small as you want it to be - on Earth it's value is artificially inflated from worthless. It's pure carbon-13, and a bit less than a quarter of the weight of an equivelant volume of iron, about 30% more than an equivelant volume of water.

These are rather rough numbers, of course - I'm basing off of atomic weights rather than density figures

It's size depends entirely on the amount of diamond in your world, which for Earth is quite a bit.

 

[Buttercup]

I would think that X weight of diamond dust would be worth significantly less than a whole diamond of the same weight. The dust could easily be a by-product of mining or gem cutting, that would be thrown in the dust bin (pun intended) if it weren't for all the spell casters out there who need it.

I think I would price diamond dust at no more than 1/4 the price of a whole stone of the same weight, and possibly even less if the PCs were friendly with a jeweler's guild.

As for the weight, I would make it the same as sand, or maybe table salt.

 

[The Sigil]

I would think that X weight of diamond dust would be worth significantly less than a whole diamond of the same weight. The dust could easily be a by-product of mining or gem cutting, that would be thrown in the dust bin (pun intended) if it weren't for all the spell casters out there who need it.

I think I would price diamond dust at no more than 1/4 the price of a whole stone of the same weight, and possibly even less if the PCs were friendly with a jeweler's guild.

As for the weight, I would make it the same as sand, or maybe table salt.

There is that... the value of a diamond tends to increase geometrically (or exponentially, if you prefer) with size. That is, a two-pound diamond is not worth twice as much as a one-pound diamond... it is worth four or ten or more times as much. For the sake of simplicity, I think, though, that it's easiest to just scale it linearly. Especially when, as noted above, you're dealing with a quantity the size of a tiny pinch of dust... kind of silly to worry about how big "half a pinch" or "a tenth of a pinch" is.

--The Sigil

 

[jmucchiello]

There's also the problem of value here. If someone wets their finger, touches it to a pick that's just cut through a vein of diamond and says to you, "Give me 100 gp and I'll rub this diamond dust into your bag there." That is 100 gp of diamond dust.

It's the same problem as the area around a magic college where bat guano costs 2 gp/fireball. And thus you cannot use Eschew Materials on spells with bat guano as a component because it costs more than 1 gp.

IOW, you are overthinking this. Spell descriptions should not have values attached to the spell components. Spell components should cost what the market bears.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all! Interesting Thread.

Have a couple of ideas from my e-book, the Enchiridion of Mystic Music:

Diamond
Cost/lb: 250,000
Hardness: 20
Hp/Inch: 15
Description: Diamond comes in nearly every color imaginable, though it tends to be pale to colorless. It has a waxy to adamantine luster and is transparent to translucent.
Essential Power: Diamond promotes the mastery of the environment around the wearer. A bearer of at least 1/50th of a pound of ensorcelled diamond gains a +1 luck bonus to all skill checks. Market Price: +6000 gp, XP to Ensorcel: 240

I don't mean to hijack the thread but has anyone ever considered the hardness modifier between deformable (eg. metal) and non-deformable (eg. stone/gemstone) materials.

I mean based on pure hardness alone glass is actually tougher than iron (yet has one tenth its hardness in the PHB). Diamond is between 16-32* times tougher than iron (lets take the average of 24 for simplicity sake). So this would constitute a Hardness rating of 24 if we applied the same relationship between glass and iron (1/10th).

*Depending on certain variables.

However, the 'black sheep' of the family is of course Stone which is given as Hardness 8.

If we were to base Diamond on the Stone-Iron relationship it would be Hardness 240.

So is Stone wrong or is Glass wrong? (Personally I think the former)

Any Comments?

 

[Saeviomagy]

Hi all! Interesting Thread.
I don't mean to hijack the thread but has anyone ever considered the hardness modifier between deformable (eg. metal) and non-deformable (eg. stone/gemstone) materials.

I mean based on pure hardness alone glass is actually tougher than iron (yet has one tenth its hardness in the PHB). Diamond is between 16-32* times tougher than iron (lets take the average of 24 for simplicity sake). So this would constitute a Hardness rating of 24 if we applied the same relationship between glass and iron (1/10th).

*Depending on certain variables.

Real world hardness has very little to do with toughness. Drop an iron cup. Drop a glass. Which do you think is going to break?