How Much Is Too Much?

[MatrexsVigil]

[font=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]With aspirations to actually publish a homebrew setting of my own, I've come to a dilemma. I have twenty-two races (only three are of the 'core kind' - human, elf, and dwarf) with most being original and of the ECL kind, along with twenty-eight base classes. This is obviously too many to contain in one core book, along with everything else. What do you think are better numbers?

-P.C.[/font]

 

[Reprisal]

I remember there being an idea that humans tend to remember things in groups with a maximum hovering around 7 +/- 2. So, generally speaking, I'd say that you couldn't go wrong limiting yourself to that range.

You said you have twenty-two races, though; so, I'm not exactly sure if you mean that there are twenty-two unique races, or that you have a number of core races with a load of subraces ("an elf for all seasons" and what-not).

To me, twenty-eight base classes seems like a bit much. As a result, I think you might want to limit yourself to whatever original core classes fit and a few per culture/whatever you meant there to be...

Really, in order to give you anything but the most cursory input, you'd need to be more specific about the nature of the setting.

- Rep.

 

[Crothian]

I'd go through and decide which races and classes are most important to the campaign setting. Pick the ones that are most general, and leave the speicfic ones for either suplliemts or to post as extra material.

 

[Umbran]

Well, the D&D PHB has 11 classes and 7 distinct races. Something in that neighborhood seems reasonable.

I'd have to say, it sounds like you've got.. too many races and classes for my tastes. As part of a setting's "core", I'd personally prefer only ECL 0 critters. Things more powerful probably ought to be highly optional. And do you really need 28 base classes to cover the basic roles in the world's adventuring society?

 

[MatrexsVigil]

Races

I should have just given lists of the races and classes I was talking about. It never helps to be vague. Thanks for answering my post though!







The twenty-two races include:

• Humans (just like the core)
• Elves (more plant and tree inclined than core elves)
• Dwarves (more technology inclined than the core)
• Telek (mercantile flightless anthro birds)
• Seikar (war focused non-swamp dwelling lizard folk)
• Plyaer (crystalline humanoids with psionic aptitude)
• Zaven (tree-gliding tribal anthro cats)
• Sanun (wanderlust filled anthro bears)
• K'tan (tauric slightly hive minded thri-keen)
• Peophin (dolphins who can shapechange into a humanoid form)
• Leikin (anthro wolves cursed with 'humanthropy')
• Lussen (amorphous blobs with natural illusion abilities)
• Rathe (gargoyle like creatures)
• Toren (truth finding minotaurs)
• Nyth (humanoids who hunt with natural animalistic shapechanging abilities)
• Reytaur (tauric deer with a natural affinity for the stars)
• Sizumi (disease spreading ratmen)
• Rasune (mute anthro foxes in charge of keeping secrets)
• Nin (anthro bat with natural darkness powers)
• Dren (low-powered dopplegangers)
• Nekshe (plant creatures whose powers change with the seasons)
• Sintou (anthro snakes who are natural charmers and empaths)

-P.C.

 

[MatrexsVigil]

Classes

And to continue with the post above...

Classes (with notes):

• Archer[*]Artificer (creators of Magi-Tech items)[*]Barbarian[*]Bard[*]Champion (to replace the Paladin with something general)[*]Cleric[*]Death Warrior (a fighter-Necromancer hybrid)[*]Druid (sans wild shape)[*]Fighter[*]Gladiator[*]Guardian (a master of shields, armor, and defense)[*]Knight[*]Mage (to replace both the core sorcerer and wizard, elemental caster)[*]Monk[*]Morpher (where wild shape went to, with of course, more options)[*]Necromancer (think Diablo, not the magic school)[*]Ninja[*]Psion[*]Psychic Warrior[*]Ranger[*]Rogue[*]Samurai[*]Shaman[*]Sorcerer (a fighter-mage hybrid)[*]Summoner (a touch or research, summon later caster)[*]Swashbuckler[*]Tech Warrior (a fighter-artificer hybrid)[*]Totem Warrior (a fighter-shaman hybrid)

-P.C.

 

[Umbran]

Okay, I won't get into the races, as there's always been a few "core" races, followed by people trying to play anything and everything under the sun out of the monster books. I'd suggest you pare it down to a handful of ones you feel are most numerous in the world, and leave the extra for later.

As for classes... the problem I see is that in many cases you have a core class for what I'd normally make a Prestige Class.

For example, you have Fighters, Archers, Knights, Samurai and Guardians. Most of the latter ones sound to be merely very specific forms of the Fighter.

Similarly, you have things like the Death Warrior, Totem Warrior, Tech Warrior, and Sorcerer. All of these are trying to blend a Fighter with something else. Normally the way to do that is either a multiclass or a Prestige class. Not a core class unto itself.

Core classes are, IMHO, more for generic roles.

 

[Phineas Crow]

I don't see a problem.... the Talislanta RPG has nearly 90 races.

 

[MatrexsVigil]

My only problem with making several of the classes into prestige classes, is that why should a player who wants to play a Swashbuckler, take five or six levels of fighter (and/or rogue) just to start being able to fight well on ships? The same with the Samurai, Knight, Archer, and Guardian, to name a few. Although, I do see your point.

I'm at a loss with what to do with the 'fighter' hybrid classes. I hope to evolve them out of the 'hybrid' feel into something more unique. Any ideas?

-P.C.

 

[GuardianLurker]

I'd suggest breaking the races down by theme/accessibility. People generally find it easier to pretend to be something very much like themselves. This is why 3e has humans, humans-with-pointy-ears, short-humans-with-beards, and really-short-humans. I think you'll find that a lot of your really-cool races won't end up being used.

Play-testing will tell you exactly which races are best left for supplements, but here's my completely unfounded opinion of a potential break down:

• Basic, appearing in the core book. I chose the three core, plus one Anthro race, and two "unique" races. Which should emphasize the differences between your world and the standard 3e ones. The particulars are obviously up to you.
  • Humans (just like the core)
  • Elves (more plant and tree inclined than core elves)
  • Dwarves (more technology inclined than the core)
  • Toren (truth finding minotaurs)
  • Peophin (dolphins who can shapechange into a humanoid form)
  • Nekshe (plant creatures whose powers change with the seasons)
• Anthromorphic Races Supplement. Note that some of these races (Sizumi, Rasune, Telek) seem much better suited for use as NPCs. NPC races should definitely only appear in a supplement.
  • Telek (mercantile flightless anthro birds)
  • Seikar (war focused non-swamp dwelling lizard folk)
  • Zaven (tree-gliding tribal anthro cats)
  • Sanun (wanderlust filled anthro bears)
  • Leikin (anthro wolves cursed with 'humanthropy')
  • Toren (truth finding minotaurs). in great detail.
  • Sizumi (disease spreading ratmen)
  • Rasune (mute anthro foxes in charge of keeping secrets)
  • Nin (anthro bat with natural darkness powers)
  • Sintou (anthro snakes who are natural charmers and empaths)
• Tauric Races Supplement; this should probably be combined with the Anthro races supplement, since there's only two. I wouldn't put either in the "core" book.
  • K'tan (tauric slightly hive minded thri-keen)
  • Reytaur (tauric deer with a natural affinity for the stars)
• Unusual Races Supplement. I wouldn't put the psionics into the core (unless, of course, psionics *is* core for your world).
  • Plyaer (crystalline humanoids with psionic aptitude)
  • Peophin (dolphins who can shapechange into a humanoid form)
  • Lussen (amorphous blobs with natural illusion abilities)
  • Rathe (gargoyle like creatures)
  • Nyth (humanoid hunters with natural shapechange abilities) {BTW, are these humaniods who are hunters, or shapechangers that hunt humanoids?}
  • Dren (low-powered dopplegangers)
  • Nekshe (plant creatures whose powers change with the seasons)