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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
how much weaker are wizards(and other casters) in this edition compared to 3.5?
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<blockquote data-quote="The Crimson Binome" data-source="post: 7337944" data-attributes="member: 6775031"><p>Concentration isn't that big of a deal. The wizard is no longer flying and invisible, but neither are there an abundance of monsters which can negate flying and invisibility as a balancing measure.</p><p></p><p>The big (theoretical) difference comes with bounded accuracy, and the need to make a saving throw every round. Third edition still had a lot of save-or-die effects, so a single spell could end a fight instantly. Fifth edition has a lot of save-or-mezzed effects, where a single spell can still trivialize a fight, but there's usually at least a possibility of one of the monsters breaking free before you can focus it down.</p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, the bounded part of spell DCs doesn't quite work as intended, due to the proficiency math. In third edition, save DCs were often impossible to beat, which is why a natural 20 was always a success. In fifth edition, because non-proficient saves don't scale <em>at all</em>, and since a natural 20 is no longer an automatic success, it's possible for a mezzed monster to have zero chance of breaking free. So the ultimate change in caster power hasn't actually changed that much, on the high end; you just need to be more careful to target non-proficient saves.</p><p></p><p>The big (practical) difference is the catastrophic nerf to spell damage, with the corresponding buff to monster HP. The HP for orcs and ogres have more than doubled between editions, while spell damage only scales with the spell <em>slot</em> used (rather than scaling automatically with your caster level), and even then it only scales half as quickly. A third-level spell slot is no longer sufficient to wipe out a room full of orcs, let alone ogres, even if you're a level 10 character.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Crimson Binome, post: 7337944, member: 6775031"] Concentration isn't that big of a deal. The wizard is no longer flying and invisible, but neither are there an abundance of monsters which can negate flying and invisibility as a balancing measure. The big (theoretical) difference comes with bounded accuracy, and the need to make a saving throw every round. Third edition still had a lot of save-or-die effects, so a single spell could end a fight instantly. Fifth edition has a lot of save-or-mezzed effects, where a single spell can still trivialize a fight, but there's usually at least a possibility of one of the monsters breaking free before you can focus it down. Unfortunately, the bounded part of spell DCs doesn't quite work as intended, due to the proficiency math. In third edition, save DCs were often impossible to beat, which is why a natural 20 was always a success. In fifth edition, because non-proficient saves don't scale [I]at all[/I], and since a natural 20 is no longer an automatic success, it's possible for a mezzed monster to have zero chance of breaking free. So the ultimate change in caster power hasn't actually changed that much, on the high end; you just need to be more careful to target non-proficient saves. The big (practical) difference is the catastrophic nerf to spell damage, with the corresponding buff to monster HP. The HP for orcs and ogres have more than doubled between editions, while spell damage only scales with the spell [I]slot[/I] used (rather than scaling automatically with your caster level), and even then it only scales half as quickly. A third-level spell slot is no longer sufficient to wipe out a room full of orcs, let alone ogres, even if you're a level 10 character. [/QUOTE]
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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
how much weaker are wizards(and other casters) in this edition compared to 3.5?
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