How much would you pay for a PDF?

[Jan van Leyden]

1/2 the regular price is just perfect. The other 1/2 would be from me printing and binding it.

But then you'll still have to suffer inferior quality.

For me it's a dumb idea to offer something in such different media. For reading something, give me a book. For (re-) searching somthing, give me a PDF.

A lot of RPG material boils down to data-like information, like feats, spells, classes and so on. This information is itemized into small chunks. It's okay with me to read such chunks on the monitor, and it's great to be able to search through it.

Other material, like background information, makes sense if you read through the whole stuff. A real pain, if you to have to do so on the computer. I want to have this as a book which I can read in bed, on the bus, or wherever I have some minutes to spare. And I don't want to worry about headaches induced by being glued to the screen.

So, publishers: Make your products as book plus PDF. Throw the nitty-gritty rules details out of the book to make it thinner and not as costly to produce. Put this stuff as PDF and XML on the CD. You still save production costs and I, for one, am a happy camper.

Huldvoll

Jan van Leyden

 

[rowport]

The main reason that publishers who primarily produce print products keep their price point the same regardless of the medium is because they do not wish to damage their relationships with retailers or distributors by being perceived as undercutting the prices on the same content. Those that hold this line aren't concerned if they lose some electronic sales that they might get at a lower price because their primary target market is to consumers in places where the print products are not available or to consumers who are not price conscious and are willing to pay the full retail for an electronic version, regardless of whether or not they already own the print version.

Mark-

I agree that reason is based on the *perception* that pdf sales will cut into traditional print products, but would strongly question whether that perception is the reality. My gut-check for the game book market based on several threads here on related topics is that some folks buy pdfs, and some buy books, and some even buy both (two copies of the work)- but the camps of each are pretty distinct, unlikely to cross-over to the other camp. In other words, the pdf market is not the same as the print market; they are each sub-sets of the larger game industry market.

Is there any real market research on willingness for folks to cross-over print to pdf or vice-versa? I know that you were doing some survey work yourself on the pdf market.

Personally, I am curious to see the effect of print-on-demand. This gives traditional pdf vendors a means to bridge the gap to the print-only buyers, while still keeping their distribution costs relatively thin. The relative price delta between pdfs and the print-on-demand version of a pdf is much tighter than the pdfs being sold by traditional print vendors. That should create interesting market pressure.

 

[Yair]

I voted <50%, but if the book looks really promising I would go higher... probably to 75%.

 

[Vigilance]

Behemoth 3 includes a code for the PDF with the book sale. A wonderful idea that I wish more dual format publishers would embrace. In a similar vein, RPGObjects offers discount on print if you buy the PDF.

Yep, if you upgrade to the print edition of an RPGObjects book, the PDF is free after discount on many titles.

PS I voted 50-75% but I have bought RPGs at DTRPG for more than I would normally pay because the book is out of print. Bushido, Aftermath and V&V... mmmmm

Chuck

 

[Vigilance]

Mark-

I agree that reason is based on the *perception* that pdf sales will cut into traditional print products, but would strongly question whether that perception is the reality. My gut-check for the game book market based on several threads here on related topics is that some folks buy pdfs, and some buy books, and some even buy both (two copies of the work)- but the camps of each are pretty distinct, unlikely to cross-over to the other camp. In other words, the pdf market is not the same as the print market; they are each sub-sets of the larger game industry market.

Is there any real market research on willingness for folks to cross-over print to pdf or vice-versa? I know that you were doing some survey work yourself on the pdf market.

Personally, I am curious to see the effect of print-on-demand. This gives traditional pdf vendors a means to bridge the gap to the print-only buyers, while still keeping their distribution costs relatively thin. The relative price delta between pdfs and the print-on-demand version of a pdf is much tighter than the pdfs being sold by traditional print vendors. That should create interesting market pressure.

It isnt the customers who have that perception.

Its the retailers.

PDF publishers are evil SOBs who are stealing food from their children.

And when we raise concerns about how often distributors don't pay small publishers, we're just whining dissembling liars and they can smell it.

Any attempt to sell a product electronically, or sell it yourself, or in any way fail to support the traditional print-distributor-retailer distribution chain is evil and selfish and all companies should support that model even if it means they will not be paid by distributors cause they aren't "big enough" and go out of business.

Chuck

 

[Glyfair]

I've heard that before, too, from some companies. And even saw some retract discount first run pricing because of it.

But oddly, the publisher who is the main inspiration for this thread is having a fire sale on their printed books for 1/4 or less MSRP, yet are charging nearly full print MSRP on PDFs. It seems to me slashing prices on print books would be more direct competition with Brick & Mortar, if anything.

I'd expect that the publisher in question is trying to clear up warehouse space. Dropping the price on the PDF versions won't help to do this. Indeed, it might work against it, because some people will choose to buy the PDF versions rather than the print version.

Sure, this will likely upset retailers who have stock on shelves. On the other hand, it's all old stock and probably doesn't have much impact on those who might have bought it from the retailer. I imagine most purchases of these books where from those who normally wouldn't have bought the product, but are willing at the very cheap price point.

 

[Mark]

I've heard that before, too, from some companies. And even saw some retract discount first run pricing because of it.

But oddly, the publisher who is the main inspiration for this thread is having a fire sale on their printed books for 1/4 or less MSRP, yet are charging nearly full print MSRP on PDFs. It seems to me slashing prices on print books would be more direct competition with Brick & Mortar, if anything.

Are you saying that the publisher who was your inspiration for this thread is selling off old print books for cheap while at the same time they are selling PDFs of those SAME print books at full retail of a print book? They may not be getting any orders from the distribution chain on those print books that are slashed while still getting orders on print books for which they are selling full price PDFs. *shrug* I dunno. Just guessing what might be the mindset. Alternately, if the full price PDFs ARE the same as the slash price print books, they may wish to blow out more of those and not want to compete with themself. In any event, people who want to pay less are never the first target market for someone wanting to sell anything retail. I know, I'm one who always wants to pay less as a consumer and get top dollar as a publisher. It's only natural, afterall.

 

[Mark]

Mark-

I agree that reason is based on the *perception* that pdf sales will cut into traditional print products, but would strongly question whether that perception is the reality. My gut-check for the game book market based on several threads here on related topics is that some folks buy pdfs, and some buy books, and some even buy both (two copies of the work)- but the camps of each are pretty distinct, unlikely to cross-over to the other camp. In other words, the pdf market is not the same as the print market; they are each sub-sets of the larger game industry market.

Is there any real market research on willingness for folks to cross-over print to pdf or vice-versa? I know that you were doing some survey work yourself on the pdf market.

Personally, I am curious to see the effect of print-on-demand. This gives traditional pdf vendors a means to bridge the gap to the print-only buyers, while still keeping their distribution costs relatively thin. The relative price delta between pdfs and the print-on-demand version of a pdf is much tighter than the pdfs being sold by traditional print vendors. That should create interesting market pressure.

I think Chuck sums things up fairly well in his post in regard to the top portion of your post; i.e. it's the retailer/distributor perception (no matter how accurate) that needs to be observed if you want to, as a print publisher, not be perceived as biting the hand that feeds you.

Market research is scattered, loose, and largely annecdotal in regard to print-to-PDF cross-over sales and I don't think it is complete enough to form any fair impressions. It's fun to watch to see how it plays out but I don't think anyone has any solid, hard data yet. Maybe James from RPGNow.com has about the best handle on things, PDF-wise but even that is going to get skewed a bit as trends from left field crop up without warning.

PODs are something I'll look into and don't know enough to comment.

 

[Mark]

(snip)

Chuck

Hey! One of my best friends is a retailer!

 

[Jolly Giant]

I wouldn't buy a PDF book if there was a printed version of the same book. For smaller publishers PDF is an excellent low-cost alternative to printing, but if there is a printed version of a book I want, then that is what I'll buy. Maybe, if it was a book I was only half-interested in and the PDF cost something like 10% of the printed version, I'd consider it.