How preserving and defiling magic works?

wolfattack

First Post
Hello to all,i'm new here and have this question since i got my hands in the Dark Sun setting:

How preserving and defiling magic works?
of course there is a page(80) that (try)explains defiling magic and the preserve way,but it is not clear for me. okay,if i choose to defile,i can use the Arcane Defiling power,but this only works whit Daily powers. in the book it says that if i use ANY POWER and choose to defile,it destroys any mundane plant life form whitin 1 square of me.ok until here.now,what exactly its the benefict in defiling whit a encounter or a at-will power? don't know where the advantage is.

also,now about the preserver's path. i just say ''my PC is preserving'' and its everything okay? there are no rules to preserve?

well,these are my questions,if anyone can help me,please do so.;)
 

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Like in the books, casters can choose whether or not to defile when casting. The power of defiling is represented by feats, paragon paths, and the effect on Dailies.

If you choose to defile on an at-will, you get nothing out of it except ... well, making everyone want to kill you more, and making it impossible to hide your spellcasting.

-O
 


Hello to all,i'm new here and have this question since i got my hands in the Dark Sun setting:

How preserving and defiling magic works?
of course there is a page(80) that (try)explains defiling magic and the preserve way,but it is not clear for me. okay,if i choose to defile,i can use the Arcane Defiling power,but this only works whit Daily powers. in the book it says that if i use ANY POWER and choose to defile,it destroys any mundane plant life form whitin 1 square of me.ok until here.now,what exactly its the benefict in defiling whit a encounter or a at-will power? don't know where the advantage is.

also,now about the preserver's path. i just say ''my PC is preserving'' and its everything okay? there are no rules to preserve?

well,these are my questions,if anyone can help me,please do so.;)

Mechanically, preserving has always been the default. Defiling and preserving underwent significant changes between 2e and 4e, and I'll try to explain both versions:

2e defiling: The "within universe" default method of arcane spellcasting. (In fact, wizards were the only arcane spellcasting classes. There were no witches, and bards were rogues who used poison.)

Defilers spent less XP to gain levels. They had to "burn" plant energy to cast spells in a very wasteful manner. You could choose to collect energy ahead of time (when you prepped spells) which was easy to do secretly. You could instead cast it in combat. This wasn't at all stealthy, and might get you killed by non-evil PCs, but you could slow your opponents' initiative due to the pain they suffered. I don't know if defilers could be good-aligned.

Preservers had to have a Wisdom of 13, as defiling (the first spellcasting any wizard would learn, as it's easier) is addictive. A preserver could defile once per level per level (eg a 5th-level preserver could defile 5 times before "falling") but any preserver who was seen even once defiling by, say, the Veiled Alliance would probably be killed immediately. Otherwise you had more endurance than a defiler, at the long-term cost of having to spend more XP to gain levels.

In 4e this has been turned on its head to some extent. Defiling has been made fairly "balanced" with preserving, and PCs can freely switch from one to the other (mechanically, that is). The term "preserver" and "defiler" don't really have any mechanical meaning, although some mystic effects hurt those who have many defiling feats more than those who have none at all. Instead, it's purely a flavor description. Any wizard who almost never defiles would be called a "preserver" by those who know better, any wizard who almost always defiles would be called a "defiler".

Arcane Defiling is the free power all arcane spellcaster PCs get, even if you never intend to use it. At the cost of killing plant life and inflicting damage on allies (not enemies), you can reroll the attack or damage roll of a daily arcane power. There are feats which reduce the damage allies take, or inflict more damage, or let you use Arcane Defiling with encounter powers, etc.

It's different for NPCs and monsters. Generally defiling is entirely useful for them, no surprise, as they're balanced differently than PCs. For instance, the generic "human defiler" monster NPC inflicts 3 or 5 points of necrotic damage to all enemies within 5 squares every time it uses an implement power (at-will, encounter, recharge or daily). It is effectively balanced with a monster that has a short-range aura that deals 5 necrotic damage every turn, but has a slightly different flavor.
 

it seems that in the 2nd edition this was more clear. so,if i choose to preserve i'm simple role playing a normal wizard,whit no additional rules or restrictions,and if i choose to defile,i already have the Arcane Defiling Power that has no use in a at-will or encounter power.still the book says that if i choose to defile in any power,i'm destroying nearby plant life and i not gain any benefit for doing this.well,so i din't miss anything in the book.i don't like these rules for magic in Dark Sun,like i said before,it is not clear. anyway,thanks for the answers. :)
 

it seems that in the 2nd edition this was more clear.

So,if i choose to preserve i'm simple role playing a normal wizard,whit no additional rules or restrictions

and if i choose to defile, i already have the Arcane Defiling Power that has no use in a at-will or encounter power. still the book says that if i choose to defile in any power, i'm destroying nearby plant life and i not gain any benefit for doing this.

There's no real benefit for defiling if you're not using a daily power, no. But then, unlike in 2e, you don't have to defile when it gives you no benefit. (Defilers had to burn up the plant life in 2e, which didn't do wonders for your magical endurance.)
 

In fact, in 2e, it depended if you were using the first boxed set, or the second boxed set for the defiling rules. And I think there were others as well.

The essence of it was... you either defiled all the time, or preserved all the time. Your class determined it, and there wasn't really any mechanical benefit to defiling as a preserver.

The cool thing with 4e is that... well... if you're not a defiler, it is not because of the fact that's your class. You preserve as a conscious choice, each and every time you cast your most powerful magic.

On top of this... there will come a time when you're in a fight with something big, bad, and nasty. And you -need- that spell to hit. Maybe you're a bard, and that daily's hit is a literal 'life or death' situation. If you hit, you save the party from death. If you fail, it might be a total party wipeout.

You miss. And there on your character sheet is a green power that says 'Use me! Save your friends! Win this fight! You'll die if you don't!'

Defiling is not just a lifestyle choice. It's a literal temptation.

Then you look at the preserving feats, which actually remove that safety button. Defiling makes you a better spellcaster; it's an advantage non-arcane casters cannot access... do you give it up for the good of the world?

It's a literal decision to espouse power for goodness, both in the narrative, and in the game mechanics itself.

That makes it a -very- well done mechanics.
 


In fact, in 2e, it depended if you were using the first boxed set, or the second boxed set for the defiling rules. And I think there were others as well.

The essence of it was... you either defiled all the time, or preserved all the time. Your class determined it, and there wasn't really any mechanical benefit to defiling as a preserver.

The cool thing with 4e is that... well... if you're not a defiler, it is not because of the fact that's your class. You preserve as a conscious choice, each and every time you cast your most powerful magic.

On top of this... there will come a time when you're in a fight with something big, bad, and nasty. And you -need- that spell to hit. Maybe you're a bard, and that daily's hit is a literal 'life or death' situation. If you hit, you save the party from death. If you fail, it might be a total party wipeout.

You miss. And there on your character sheet is a green power that says 'Use me! Save your friends! Win this fight! You'll die if you don't!'

Defiling is not just a lifestyle choice. It's a literal temptation.

Then you look at the preserving feats, which actually remove that safety button. Defiling makes you a better spellcaster; it's an advantage non-arcane casters cannot access... do you give it up for the good of the world?

It's a literal decision to espouse power for goodness, both in the narrative, and in the game mechanics itself.

That makes it a -very- well done mechanics.

Hmmm...looking in that way it really seems a good tool for roleplaying too. like you said,it can save the party's ass in a life or death situation...but it comes whit a price.
 

Hmmm...looking in that way it really seems a good tool for roleplaying too. like you said,it can save the party's ass in a life or death situation...but it comes whit a price.

The reason that came to me was because a similiar life and death situation came out of the Prism Pentad. The spellcaster, Sadira, was forced to defile to channel a magic powerful enough to save herself, and the temptation to do so again became a repeated question for her character. I thought that tension was awesome, but the second edition rules didn't really do a lot to make it -worth- defiling as a preserver.

Then the Revised Dark Sun rules came in and had a method of rewarding defiling by increasing the caster level if you defiled on lands that were fertile... well... fertile by Dark Sun standards. The downside to those rules is that defiling in the fiction and in the first version of the setting occured when you -cast- the spell. In the revised edition, it occured when you memorized the spell... which removed the whole tension of defiling in social situations.

The fourth edition rules fix all those problems. You get power for defiling so you might want to do it, but you don't prepare it in safety... if you're a defiler, you cannot hide it like you can hide your waggling fingers.
 

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