There was some talk about 3e having too much emphasis on Prestige Classes, and I've heard people criticize 2nd Edition for too much emphasis on kits. Personally, the vast majority of PC's I've seen in all editions have been "mainstream", right out of the basic options in the PHB. How about you?
How Prestigious?
- Thread starter haakon1
- Start date
MortalPlague
Adventurer
In every 3rd edition game I've played past 7th level, prestige classes have played a significant role. In fact, I have never seen a non-prestige character past 13th level. With all the various benefits you get from prestige classes, it simply doesn't make sense not to take one.
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
This thread is about prestige classes according to text, but by poll options, "prestige" includes even non-core base classes.
I'm not sure how to vote. The vast majority of people I play with have core classes, but often times they will use a non-core variant class or racial feature, feats are frequently non-core, and while something like Sorcerer 8 / Marshall 1 would be almost entirely core, by your poll options, I'd have to count it as non-core...
As for 2e, I barely played it as P&P at a table, I have way more exposure from Baldur's Gate I&II and Icewind Dale. Between in person and computer games, I'd say about half my choices for class were non-core, and I LOVED the kits (this s included in the 50% estimate, though it may be closer to 75%).
Haven't voted yet, though, because any game in 3E that sn't limited to core will inevitably have most PCs with something non-core about them, whether feats, classes, spells, variants, race... So I don't even know the answer.
I'm not sure how to vote. The vast majority of people I play with have core classes, but often times they will use a non-core variant class or racial feature, feats are frequently non-core, and while something like Sorcerer 8 / Marshall 1 would be almost entirely core, by your poll options, I'd have to count it as non-core...
As for 2e, I barely played it as P&P at a table, I have way more exposure from Baldur's Gate I&II and Icewind Dale. Between in person and computer games, I'd say about half my choices for class were non-core, and I LOVED the kits (this s included in the 50% estimate, though it may be closer to 75%).
Haven't voted yet, though, because any game in 3E that sn't limited to core will inevitably have most PCs with something non-core about them, whether feats, classes, spells, variants, race... So I don't even know the answer.
The discussion of Prestige classes is what made me think of the topic, but in earlier editions, that was not the term/concept. However, I think that, for example, the classes in Unearthed Arcana for AD&D, such as the Cavalier and the Thief-Acrobat, fit more the prestige mold than the core mold.
Note that I'm also putting stuff like the 3e Warlock in "non-core" -- it's not in the core of the original rules for 3e, so it's more like Thief-Acrobat than, say, Thief, in my cross-edition view of classes.
Which brings up another interesting permutation -- what was core in one edition is not necessarily in the others. For example, AD&D to 2e resulted in Assassins disappearing from the core rules, while 3e to 4e brought warlocks into the core.
Marshall makes that example non-core to me. A variant of a core class (like Urban Ranger) is up to you, but I'd tend to think of it as core. Non-core feats I'd ignore, still counting a core class as a core class regardless of feats. Different races is another poll.
Quartz
Hero
In 3E, for non-spellcasters, multiclassing was half the point: you built your character with a few levels of fighter for the feats, a few levels of rogue for the skills, and maybe a few levels of paladin, barbarian, or monk for the abilities. Not unusual to have a Ftr 4 / Rog 5. And then you'd find an interesting Prestige Class.
Multiclassing didn't do so well for spellcasters
Multiclassing didn't do so well for spellcasters
Lord Xtheth
Explorer
In 2nd Ed I played a paladin up to 18th level before the campaign ended, no kit required. (This was the only character I played past level 10)
In 3.X I played a Fighter up to 12 (then retired him), a Monk up to 15 (then retired him), A Wizard up to 22 (then lost his sheet).
None of the above characters did I even consider adding a prestige class to (or kit for the paladin) I didn't need them to make my characters cool.
I know this is a small list, but I've been mainly a DM, so forgive me.
In 3.X I played a Fighter up to 12 (then retired him), a Monk up to 15 (then retired him), A Wizard up to 22 (then lost his sheet).
None of the above characters did I even consider adding a prestige class to (or kit for the paladin) I didn't need them to make my characters cool.
I know this is a small list, but I've been mainly a DM, so forgive me.
Gilladian
Adventurer
We never used kits - I realized they were unbalanced the moment they appeared, and my players never even asked for them! We did use some homebrew classes and races, though. I guess that counts. Definitely under 25%, though.
For 3e, we have had a very few prestige classes taken - out of dozens of characters in 4-5 different campaigns, I can think of maybe 3. I guess my PC's aren't adventurous in that way.
In 4e we've only played a few characters, and are still 2nd level, and we only have the 3 "core" books, so nothing there yet!
For 3e, we have had a very few prestige classes taken - out of dozens of characters in 4-5 different campaigns, I can think of maybe 3. I guess my PC's aren't adventurous in that way.
In 4e we've only played a few characters, and are still 2nd level, and we only have the 3 "core" books, so nothing there yet!
Sorry for getting off topic here but Xtheth I noticed your avatar says level 30 DM. If you are indeed DMing level 30 PCs is there any chance you might be willing to start a thread to tell us how thats going? I know I am certainly interested to hear what the endgame gameplay is like.
Nyeshet
First Post
I never played 2e - I got into RPGs literally a week or three before 3e came out. I have not yet played 4e (nor am I all that certain I want to).
I answered with about 50 - 75% were not pure core classes. When I chose a class it was initially core about 25% of the time, but more often than not it would gain a PrC or multiclass into a non-core base class by level 8 - 12. Usually the core classes just could not cover the basic feel for the type of character I was striving to create.
The only class that ever came close - or, perhaps more accurately, was most often used without PrCs or multiclassing with a non-core base class - was the rogue. Its several diverse class specials combined with high class skill list and numerous skill points often allowed it to fill several possible roles from thief to trickster, from scout to trapmaster, and so forth. I might dip for 1-3 levels into sorcerer, bard, cleric, fighter, or nearly any other core base class to expand its options a bit, but for the most part it worked quite well even on its own. The same cannot be said of, say, the fighter. The lack of interesting higher level bonus feats for the fighter (until PHB2) really stiffled the playing of that class for many. Almost every time I saw someone play one (and the few times I myself tried the class), multiclassing with another class (often after 4th or 6th level) or adding on a PrC occurred. Only once did I see a person take the Fighter into high levels without multiclassing (level 11 or 12 before the character died, a half-orc fighter).
Casters were often played almost purely, but even then there were several PrCs available that diminished casting only slightly (no more than 3 caster levels) and so were still desirable for one seeking to reach 9th level spells (even if the game was unlikely to last to that high a level). The lack of significant class specials for the cleric and sorcerer (and, to a lesser extent, the wizard) made multiclassing or taking a PrC - when it was not too costly in caster levels - all but certain at some point, if only for flavor. I know of several instances where a PrC was taken that reduced final (20th level) caster level by 1-3 levels and gave moderate to lack-luster class specials were taken specifically more for flavor than power.
I still find it amusing that the PrC was initially created in 3e DMG as a type of 'kit' for those joining an organization, meant to be infrequently taken and controlled rather strongly by the DM, but instead they became one of the most commonly accepted practices in the game and often were not associated with role play requiring organizations (that one would have to petition to join, perhaps having duties or such after joining).
I answered with about 50 - 75% were not pure core classes. When I chose a class it was initially core about 25% of the time, but more often than not it would gain a PrC or multiclass into a non-core base class by level 8 - 12. Usually the core classes just could not cover the basic feel for the type of character I was striving to create.
The only class that ever came close - or, perhaps more accurately, was most often used without PrCs or multiclassing with a non-core base class - was the rogue. Its several diverse class specials combined with high class skill list and numerous skill points often allowed it to fill several possible roles from thief to trickster, from scout to trapmaster, and so forth. I might dip for 1-3 levels into sorcerer, bard, cleric, fighter, or nearly any other core base class to expand its options a bit, but for the most part it worked quite well even on its own. The same cannot be said of, say, the fighter. The lack of interesting higher level bonus feats for the fighter (until PHB2) really stiffled the playing of that class for many. Almost every time I saw someone play one (and the few times I myself tried the class), multiclassing with another class (often after 4th or 6th level) or adding on a PrC occurred. Only once did I see a person take the Fighter into high levels without multiclassing (level 11 or 12 before the character died, a half-orc fighter).
Casters were often played almost purely, but even then there were several PrCs available that diminished casting only slightly (no more than 3 caster levels) and so were still desirable for one seeking to reach 9th level spells (even if the game was unlikely to last to that high a level). The lack of significant class specials for the cleric and sorcerer (and, to a lesser extent, the wizard) made multiclassing or taking a PrC - when it was not too costly in caster levels - all but certain at some point, if only for flavor. I know of several instances where a PrC was taken that reduced final (20th level) caster level by 1-3 levels and gave moderate to lack-luster class specials were taken specifically more for flavor than power.
I still find it amusing that the PrC was initially created in 3e DMG as a type of 'kit' for those joining an organization, meant to be infrequently taken and controlled rather strongly by the DM, but instead they became one of the most commonly accepted practices in the game and often were not associated with role play requiring organizations (that one would have to petition to join, perhaps having duties or such after joining).
