How similar is manifesting to casting?

[StreamOfTheSky]

I don't know. If you twink out with enough metamgic feats to increase damage + feats to reduce metamagic cost (or metamagic rods, whatever), a wizard could probably equal or exceed a psion in nova ability, except it'd be less costly in daily resources to the wizard, most likely. The psion will have better saves (increasing with the augmentation), so eh...

The main advantage for the arcanist being that he CAN apply tons of stuff to the same spell at once. A psion needs to lose his psionic focus, and while he can use some tricks to get it back the same turn, I don't think any of them let him apply 2 metapsionic feats twice. Maybe the feat to make his psicrystal hold a psionic focus allows that... The other trick I know of (which would not help for nova) is the swift action power that grants you a move action (which you can use w/ psionic meditation to regain your focus, arguably not worth the pp spent, precious powers known slot, and loss of a swift action).

 

[starwed]

It is odd that manifesting provokes attacks of opportunity, seeing as you can manifest while paralyzed. When you're paralyzed, you can't move your body at all, no matter whether you're manifesting or not... so why should you provoke an AOO when you're manifesting while paralyzed, and not provoke an AOO when it's your turn and you're just paralyzed?

That's just the same old weirdness that being helpless doesn't provoke. There are a lot of AoO provocations that are ascribed to "dropping your guard." But as you noted, you can't get much more open to attack than being completely frozen.

 

[Thanee]

...and most annoyingly of all, limiting Astral Construct to only summon one creature into effect a time time...

Well, Astral Constructs are stronger (as in their combat capability) than summoned monsters; they only lack some of the options with special abilities, but those are not that powerful either, so there had to be done something to bring them in line with the benchmark ability Summon Monster/Nature's Ally.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

It is odd that manifesting provokes attacks of opportunity, seeing as you can manifest while paralyzed. When you're paralyzed, you can't move your body at all, no matter whether you're manifesting or not... so why should you provoke an AOO when you're manifesting while paralyzed, and not provoke an AOO when it's your turn and you're just paralyzed?

It's actually not so odd, if you look at it from another angle...

Moving your body does not provoke AoO.
NOT moving your body (in order to dodge attacks) provokes AoO.

You provoke an AoO, when you "stand still" to cast/manifest a spell/power.
You must make a Concentration check for casting/manifesting, when you cast/manifest defensively, because you are MOVING around wildly (to dodge attacks) at the same time. It's not because you concentrate harder, it's because you have to concentrate harder, because of the "violent movement" involved.

Therefore, it is not really odd, that casting/manifesting while paralyzed provokes.

In fact, it should be impossible to cast/manifest defensively in that state!


What is odd is, that some conditions (stunned, held, paralyzed, helpless, unconscious, etc) do not automatically provoke AoO; even if you do not perform any action.

But the AoO system only triggers when an action is performed, therefore it simply does not cover those situations fully.

Bye
Thanee

 

[irdeggman]

It is odd that manifesting provokes attacks of opportunity, seeing as you can manifest while paralyzed. When you're paralyzed, you can't move your body at all, no matter whether you're manifesting or not... so why should you provoke an AOO when you're manifesting while paralyzed, and not provoke an AOO when it's your turn and you're just paralyzed?

Because you must concentrate to manifest a power so you are distracted and your attention is focused elsewhere and thus generate an opening that can be expolited.

Casting a stilled, silent spell with no material component likewise generates an AoO because of the concentration aspect.

As far as generating AoO for just being there (i.e. paralyzed) - well that is obviously a game balance issue. It doesn't have to make complete sense logically, especially if one keeps in mind that the D&D combat system is a very, very abstract system.

 

[Elethiomel]

What is odd is, that some conditions (stunned, held, paralyzed, helpless, unconscious, etc) do not automatically provoke AoO; even if you do not perform any action.

That was exactly my point; one provokes when the other does not, yet to an enemy combatant they are completely indistinguishable. Which one is the oddity is not the issue to me, just that it is an odd artifact of the rules.

I do think it should be possible to manifest defensively while paralyzed, though. The rules are already inconsistent, house-ruling away consequences of that inconsistency is treating symptoms.

Irdeggman; I'm aware that the DnD combat system is an abstract system and isn't internally consistent; I still find it interesting to think about (and discuss) these inconsistencies.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Well, the game is already pretty brutal to you if you've been left paralyzed, stunned, etc... I really wouldn't want to subject those victims to automatic AoOs as well...

And yeah, where does it say to can't manifest defensively while paralyzed? Even if it does say so, I'd allow it. If you can manifest, you should be able to defensively.
You could argue unless the enemy threatening is familiar with psionics, he should get some kind of penalty to attack you, because who in their right mind would think a "caster" (probably seem the same to joe the warrior) was still a threat paralyzed? Still Spell, Silent Spell, and Eschew Materials is one hell of an unlikely combo.

 

[Darklone]

Well, the game is already pretty brutal to you if you've been left paralyzed, stunned, etc... I really wouldn't want to subject those victims to automatic AoOs as well...

Agreed. That´s IMHO the only reason. Combined with some abilities to CDG as a standard action... or perhaps even attack.

And yeah, where does it say to can't manifest defensively while paralyzed? Even if it does say so, I'd allow it. If you can manifest, you should be able to defensively.

Depends. Being held with a Hold Person spell would IMHO make you unable to manifest... being paralysed by poison or shadow attacks due to strength loss should IMHO allow you to manifest powers.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yes, what i'm saying is, I can't think of a single scenario where if you could manifest, you could not do so defensively to avoid an AoO.

 

[TarionzCousin]

On the wizards board somewhere, and its a number of years old at least, someone had an essay about why psionics were not overpowered.

It covers a lot of points mentioned here plus a lot more. I've lost it and haven't spent time looking for it yet, Google should find it for you.

Is this it?: Myth_The_XPH_is_overpowered