How smart is a 3 INT in d20?

[Mercule]

Getting away from statistical analysis, let me share my personal experience with low int/wis characters. After a sleep-deprived week of college mid-terms many years ago, I created a new character. As luck (or the point-buy system allowed by the DM) would have it, I ended up with a 4 int and 5 wis (or vice versa).

Being sleep deprived during the first session really helped to set the tone of the character. I rarely, if ever, focused on what the DM was saying. I made snap decisions about weird things. I even forgot my name (no kidding, I had to ask another PC sometimes). Problems were solved through violence, in most cases. I was only just aware that others were seeing more than me, but when it came to complex situations, I pretty much acted like a rabid, but well heeled attack dog, relying on others to tell me when to "do my thing".

Speech was simplistic and many parts of speech (prepositional phrases, helping verbs) were left out. The few pronouns used were learned in only one form and used universally (eg. always 'me', never 'I') -- like my three-year-old daughter.

Life philosophy was pretty basic. Beings were grouped into three groups (trusting the board filters): 'friend', '', and 'used to be '. It was usually a short and direct trip from the second to the third category, at which point the being was forgotten about.

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As far as what is wisdom and what is intelligence, I'd say a low int, high wis character would be feral. Look at the skill that are associated with each stat. Reflex-type skills (spot, listen, survival, sense motive) are wisdom-based. Processing-type skills (search, knowledges, spellcraft) are int-based. Wisdom controls feelings, hunches, and immediacy. Intelligence controls reason, memory, and planning.

It is hard to bluff the high intelligence character because he has a high knowledge and can spot completely wrong facts. It is hard to bluff a high wisdom character because he's just going to have an instinctive feeling that you're lying to him. You can overcome the intelligence by causing that character to doubt himself, his knowledge, and his facts. You can't do that to the high wisdom character -- he may not be able to present a legal brief of why you are wrong, but he'll know you are. Now, whether he has the self-confidence to challenge you depends on his charisma (force of personality and self-worth, IMHO).

 

[Umbran]

The first 2 points are good. The 3rd however isn't, the 10 10 10 11 11 11 array or the non-elite array used for average NPCs are both equivalent to 3d6.

Sorry, Kalanyr, but you seem to be using a definition of "equivalent" of which I was previously unaware. Two distributions that have the same average value are equivalent, even if they differ in other respects?

Which means the world at large does fit a bell curve and the special array/4d6 method just acts as selection to pick out heroic individuals.

No, it does not mean the world at large fits a bell curve.

If the world at large is built using 3d6, there will be stats of 3, 4, and 18 floating around. 1 in every 216 stats in the universe will be a 3. If you do a frequency distribution for stats in the population, they'll fit a bell curve.

If the world at large is built out of the "10,11" set, there will be no stats of 3. Not a single one. If you do a frequency distribution of stats, you'll get a distribution that is zero everywhere but at 10 and 11. That, good sir, is not a bell curve, and is not equivalent to having the population created using 3d6.

 

[Kalanyr]

Okay, thats fair enough, but do you really think the vast majority of the world has scores of 13/12/11/10/9/8 or 10/10/10/11/11/11 ?

I don't, I think those values are there for when you really don't want to be bothered rolling 3d6 6 times for every 2 bit utterly unimportant NPC the PCs will ever encounter.

I'll admit that my view is stated nowhere, so you are absolutely correct, but it seems more logical than everyone being clones.

 

[Umbran]

Nevertheless, Evil Lawyer Dude, my 'rule of 5' above gives reasonably good results if you wish to make a comparison.

Yep. Just pointing out a few reasons why one might not want to make such compaisons.

And while SinisterMinister can perhaps be given some leeway on the political commentary for apparently being new, aren't you supposed to know better? Politics and religion are not appropriate for these message boards, even if the references are thinly veiled and don't include any names.

 

[spectre72]

My Problem with Extremely low scores, especially INT

One of the things that is difficult to comprehend for me given the way the rules are written is that a PC with a INT of 3 is still literate.

And for those of you who don't believe that people would play a PC with an INT of 3 I have seen it more than once.

One of my friends has played characters with extremely low INT scores (including 3) and we have wrestled with how to handle a number of things, but from our reading he can still read and write and is fluent in his chosen language.

So the debate went "how can a sorcerer cast spells with verbal components with an int of 3"?

He argued that there was nothing to keep him from doing this, and other than DM rule #1 (the DM is always right) we could find nothing to back up the opposite view.

This was an ongoing debate in our group for several months, and if someone else knows a rules reference that we did not find in our search then please point it out to me.

Because of this I have implemented a custom language skill system adapted from the Kingdom of Kalamar guide into my current game that links languages and fluency to skill ranks from a secondary pool of points only used for languages.

 

[WayneLigon]

One of the things that is difficult to comprehend for me given the way the rules are written is that a PC with a INT of 3 is still literate.
...
So the debate went "how can a sorcerer cast spells with verbal components with an int of 3"?

There's no reason for him not to be a little literate; a 3 is still better than a profoundly mentally retarded person and they can be taught to read a little. Some of the stuff I read recently has people with IQ scores in the 30's learning to read some words. They never have a large repetoire of words and most are beyond them, but they can do some.

For the sorcerer, no reason for him to be literate; his spells don't require him to study or learn anything. Heck, kobolds are darn good sorcerers and I doubt they have an extensive written language. He just needs to be able to talk is all. Probably the words just need to have some meaning to him, or who's to say they are 'words' at all? Maybe to cast 'Bull's Strength', he bellows like a bull. Maybe he's like Raven on the Teen Titans and just mutters the same nonsense phrase over and over, for every verbal spell he has.

 

[Tarril Wolfeye]

No, it does not mean the world at large fits a bell curve.

If the world at large is built using 3d6, there will be stats of 3, 4, and 18 floating around. 1 in every 216 stats in the universe will be a 3. If you do a frequency distribution for stats in the population, they'll fit a bell curve.

If the world at large is built out of the "10,11" set, there will be no stats of 3. Not a single one. If you do a frequency distribution of stats, you'll get a distribution that is zero everywhere but at 10 and 11. That, good sir, is not a bell curve, and is not equivalent to having the population created using 3d6.

According to DMG p.110 under the heading "Elite and Average Characters" it says "Average characters ... have average abilities (rolled on 3d6)"
So the (D&D-) World at large IS built using 3d6.

Maybe to cast 'Bull's Strength', he bellows like a bull.

"Quick, cast Bull's Strength on me!"
"Mooo!"

 

[LightPhoenix]

"Quick, cast Bull's Strength on me!"
"Mooo!"

Hah, that's great! I think next time I play a sorcerer, I'm going to do that.

 

[Ferret]

People with a 3 for Int would be hospitalised. Or in some kind of care. The lowest you might find on the streets would be 6. I think I know someone with about an 8 in my gcse french class, they forget how to say but and I have in french.

My point being that 3 is amazingly low for a human, 5 is about your 'me, bob no speak good english'

Although I could be wrong.

 

[Dogbrain]

Thak know 3 great big smartie pants score. Raldg--Ralg-Ragl--hand wavy make lightning guy explain to Thak. 3 mean number 3. That mean in third place. Only two people smarter than Thak. Poor hand wavy make lightning guy so dumb. He be tied in twentieth place.