How the hell do readied actions work!

[Sadrik]

These rules are horribly written. How do you determine which square they move through to interrupt their action to attack them. Can someone run down all of the possibilities on how these rules work. These rules could have been so simple, they are not. Ack.

 

[DracoSuave]

Well, a readied action is by it's nature a nebulous beast. A trigger could be just about anything you can observe and react to.

So... let's break it down.

Step 1:
You spend a standard action to ready your action.

Step 2:
Until your next turn, you have an immediate reaction with the trigger you set. Which means it occurs -after- their action. When it is triggered, if you choose to take it (like any immediate reaction you can save it for another trigger), you then take the specified action you've readied.

That's it.


Now, what it goes on to explain is that -because- a readied action is an immediate reaction you cannot -technically- beat someone to the punch before they attack.

However, you -can- set a trigger 'When an Enemy moves Adjacent to me' and then when they move into that square, you can decide to use that action or not. Bear in mind, you do not -know- if they are attacking you, but you can make a reasonable guess.

So basicly, what it is saying, is you cannot act -before- an attack, but you can act -after- the movement that brings them adjacent.

 

[frankthedm]

These rules are horribly written. How do you determine which square they move through to interrupt their action to attack them. Can someone run down all of the possibilities on how these rules work. These rules could have been so simple, they are not. Ack.

In 4E readies don't work. Readies are reactions now in 4E, not interrupts as they ought to be IMHO. The main exception is that your ready can trigger after any given square of a foes movement.

 

[DracoSuave]

Given there's no counterspelling in the game, (not that I've ever seen anyone ever counter a spell) it doesn't matter so much if it interrupts or reacts for the mundane uses.

 

[Sadrik]

However, you -can- set a trigger 'When an Enemy moves Adjacent to me' and then when they move into that square, you can decide to use that action or not. Bear in mind, you do not -know- if they are attacking you, but you can make a reasonable guess.

So basicly, what it is saying, is you cannot act -before- an attack, but you can act -after- the movement that brings them adjacent.

I don't think you understand the rules completely. It says you can interrupt a creature by attacking it before it attacks you, but to do so it has to move. There is nothing in there about moving adjacent to you. (In fact by strict interpretation these rules will not allow an interrupting attack unless you have reach and the monster is one square away from you.)

When you announce your trigger you have to say, "When this goblin moves I attack it" but what you really are trying to do is attack it before it attacks. It will not work if they do not move. If it pulls a bow and and attacks and does not move you lose out on your action because it did not move. Even though you are trying to attack it before you or one of your allies gets attacked by it.

So can you say nebulously, "If it attacks or moves I attack it"? Would it triggers one of the two possible outcomes in the readied action bullet points?

Do you have to say I attack it with a specific power or can you say I attack and then use a power at that point?

If they move do they get attacked when about to move out of the square but are still in the square or do they move one square and then get attacked by you. In the former case you could not use the action to ready it and wait for them to move into the square unless you had reach or a ranged attack.

Can you call for a certain square of movement or does it have to be the first square they move out of and furthermore would this fall under immediate reaction or Interrupting an enemy bullet point?

Bangs head.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

I don't think you understand the rules completely. It says you can interrupt a creature by attacking it before it attacks you, but to do so it has to move. There is nothing in there about moving adjacent to you. (In fact by strict interpretation these rules will not allow an interrupting attack unless you have reach and the monster is one square away from you.)

When you announce your trigger you have to say, "When this goblin moves I attack it" but what you really are trying to do is attack it before it attacks. It will not work if they do not move. If it pulls a bow and and attacks and does not move you lose out on your action because it did not move. Even though you are trying to attack it before you or one of your allies gets attacked by it.

So can you say nebulously, "If it attacks or moves I attack it"? Would it triggers one of the two possible outcomes in the readied action bullet points?

Do you have to say I attack it with a specific power or can you say I attack and then use a power at that point?

If they move do they get attacked when about to move out of the square but are still in the square or do they move one square and then get attacked by you. In the former case you could not use the action to ready it and wait for them to move into the square unless you had reach or a ranged attack.

Can you call for a certain square of movement or does it have to be the first square they move out of and furthermore would this fall under immediate reaction or Interrupting an enemy bullet point?

Bangs head.

He understands it, you obviously dont. That "strict interpretation of the rules" isnt taking into account that readied actions are reactions. The PHB could probably be better worded such that it read you can effectively interrupt an attack by triggering off of movement.

You can ready a trigger: "when it moves adjacent to me." If you do so you will attack right after it enters an adjacent square but before it takes any further actions, including the continuation of its movement or any attack it has planed for after it has moved adjacent to you, such as attacking you. You can ready a trigger: "when it moves within 5 squares of me." If you do so you will attack right after it enters a square within 5 spaces of you but before it can take any further actions, including the continuation of its movement or any attack it has planed for after it has moved within 5 squares of you, such as attacking you.

By doing such you can effectively interrupt an attack assuming that the target moves and triggers the trigger before it attacks.

 

[Sadrik]

He understands it, you obviously dont. That "strict interpretation of the rules" isnt taking into account that readied actions are reactions. The PHB could probably be better worded such that it read you can effectively interrupt an attack by triggering off of movement.

You can ready a trigger: "when it moves adjacent to me." If you do so you will attack right after it enters an adjacent square but before it takes any further actions, including the continuation of its movement or any attack it has planed for after it has moved adjacent to you, such as attacking you. You can ready a trigger: "when it moves within 5 squares of me." If you do so you will attack right after it enters a square within 5 spaces of you but before it can take any further actions, including the continuation of its movement or any attack it has planed for after it has moved within 5 squares of you, such as attacking you.

By doing such you can effectively interrupt an attack assuming that the target moves and triggers the trigger before it attacks.

I understand the nuance. If you want to attack the creature before it attacks me (or others) then you have to make the trigger movement. The problem is that you are trying to attack them before they attack you (or others) and if the DM simply says he draws his bow you lose your readied action because he did not move.

The other question is, where in the movement does the readied action take place?

If you readied an action to attack in response to that enemy’s movement, your readied action interrupts the movement, and you can attack before the enemy does.

It seems from this that the readied action goes before they leave their square. Which means that you have to have reach and they have to be 1 square away to get this to work.

Not to mention you have strangeness like this occurring:
The party trains their bows on the wizard awaiting his spell. The wizard takes his action and moves out of the room and the party continue to wait.
Or...
The party trains their bows on the wizard awaiting him to move. The wizard casts fireball on them and the party continues to wait.

Please answer my questions in the previous post.

 

[Skywalker]

I understand the nuance. If you want to attack the creature before it attacks me (or others) then you have to make the trigger movement. The problem is that you are trying to attack them before they attack you (or others) and if the DM simply says he draws his bow you lose your readied action because he did not move.

The other question is, where in the movement does the readied action take place?

Its really not that complicated and IMO is written very clearly. Dracosuave and others have given accurate explanations, but to reiterate, its a reaction, so:

Ready Action: To attack any enemy that moves adjacent to me.
Trigger Action: An enemy moves adjacent to the PC.
Reaction: The PC attacks the enemy.

The enemy could then attack the PC if they survived.

As for your example with drawing a bow, yes, if the trigger action does not occur then you don't get your readied action.

It seems to me that your issue isn't that the rules aren't clear. Its that you want them to do X, and they don't work like that. If so, I recommend revising your initial post accordingly. You are more likely to get more insightful responses to your issue.

 

[Sadrik]

Its really not that complicated and IMO is written very clearly. Dracosuave and others have given accurate explanations, but to reiterate, its a reaction, so:

Ready Action: To attack any enemy that moves adjacent to me.
Trigger Action: An enemy moves adjacent to the PC.
Reaction: The PC attacks the enemy.

The enemy could then attack the PC if they survived.

Apparently it is complicated enough that you don't have it right (or I am simply misunderstanding you). It is a reaction so the enemy gets to move in and attack the PC and then the PC gets to attack the enemy with its readied action. However, if you wanted to try and attack the enemy before the enemy attacked you with your readied action the only way I can see it happening is if you had reach (or a ranged weapon) and the monster started one square away from you. Correct me if I am wrong.

It seems to me that your issue isn't that the rules aren't clear. Its that you want them to do X, and they don't work like that. If so, I recommend revising your initial post accordingly. You are more likely to get more insightful responses to your issue.

I'll try and clean up my question so I can get some better opinions on the questions:
Can you say nebulously, "If it attacks or moves I attack it"?
If you have multiple triggers which one of the two possible outcomes in the readied action bullet points could/would it fall under?

Do you have to say I attack it with a specific power or can you say I attack and then use a power at that point?

If the trigger is movement do they get attacked when about to move out of the square but are still in the square or do they move one square and then get attacked by you?

To interrupt an enemy can you call for a specific square or squares of movement or range or does it have to be the first square they move out of? Furthermore would this fall under immediate reaction or Interrupting an enemy bullet point?

If you train your bow on a goblin, can you wait until it gets close to you before you shoot or do you have to shoot when it begins to move out of its initial square.

If you want to shoot the first thing that comes around the corner. Could it simply come around the corner, see you, move in and attack you, and then because it is a reaction you attack after that? You did not see it before it moved out of its initial square and you cited something coming around the corner and not its movement from that initial square.

Speaking of the before it moves out of the initial square to interrupt is that even right?

This has been an argument in the group for weeks.

I think most people simply handwave it, than play RAW.

 

[kaomera]

Apparently it is complicated enough that you don't have it right (or I am simply misunderstanding you). It is a reaction so the enemy gets to move in and attack the PC and then the PC gets to attack the enemy with its readied action.

Moving in and attacking are two different "steps". When the enemy moves into a square such that it will trigger your readied action (an adjacent square in this case) then your readied action (an attack in this case) occurs immediately after that square of movement, before the enemy can attack you (or not attack you, if it chooses that course).