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Pathfinder 1E How to be a munchkin GM

As a rule zero, I would advice not cheating. I would also advice staying believable and at least as much as possible avoid the appearance of metagaming. Set up scenarios where the enemy can be reasonably expected to have the resources to counter the PC's. Intelligent foes are best using generic defenses. The goal here isn't to beat your player. The goal is to make the game more fun for everyone involved, including the player you are challenging.

This, and the rest of the advice following, would be my suggestion.

I am in the same shoes as you; I have some experience as a GM, but am taking on a Pathfinder game for the first time. I would also consider asking the player to consider trying a different class for a while, at least until you have had a chance to get a feel for the system. They may even enjoy it.

They might not agree, of course, but at least you will have had an opportunity to raise you concerns about being able to keep the encounters challenging.

I would also recommend starting at a lower level. The higher you go, the more complicated things get. You can always mover the characters up through the initial levels more quickly as you gain confidence. I personally chose to run an Epic6 (6th is the highest level in the setting) game. Its not to everyone's tast, but if you want to know more, there is a thread here http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?206323-E6-The-Game-Inside-D-amp-D

Finally, I would take advantage of the boards and ask for assistance with the encounters you are planning to run. There are plenty of fine gaming minds here, and you should get plenty of good suggestions as to how to fine tune and run them.

thotd
 

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Don't deal with it. Embrace it. By creating a strong defensive character he's raising a flag saying he wants to be untouchable - let him. Challenge him in different ways. How can he protect others? Have NPCs question why he devotes so many magical resources to avoid danger. Also make sure he has time to enjoy the fact that he cannot be touched.

Of course a lot depends on the player in question. You know your players better than anyone here.
 


I have to try and NOT kill PCs. I am averaging 1/2 sessions. Last one was a 2Rog/4summoner that went down to 4 ghouls before the rest of the party (9 of them) got into the room to save him. You don't have to cheat or even raise the CRs, just find their weaknesses and exploit them. He went into the room by himself with his Eidelon (after all they are only ghouls), they surround him and he misses his Fort save. Next round the 2 in the rear coup him and he misses both saves.
 

So, there are a lot of ways to challenge PC's.

Let's start with a standard humanoid force package.

Humanoids can have real problems against PC's and are generally worth less than their CR especially in numbers and especially when the difference between the CR and the player level gets to be 4 or more. Take an example like a Gnoll. At 1st or 2nd level, this is reasonable challenge. But eventually the Gnoll's low BAB makes it virtually useless. Those humanoid HD are wasted. In general, to compensate for this, I tend to avoid humanoid HD and 'warrior' classed humanoids. Humanoids in my game tend to have zero (CR inflating) humanoid HD and 1-2 levels of fighter. A standard force package is 9-13 humanoids which will be about two for each PC. It's assumed that they are generally capable of recognizing spell casters by their distinctive dress and that they are trained to deal with them. While tactics vary between races, in general they'll make a lose formation with 4-6 'heavy infantry' in the middle equipped with shields and the best armor the force can afford, and who generally fight defensively and try to hold the PC's in place by forming a line and closing. They don't worry too much about causing damage immediately, the goal is grab attention and maximize AC. Shield wall rules if you have them. The heavy infantry are generally flanked by 2-4 skirmishers, close enough to the line to provoke AoO for anything that tries to go past and optimized for initiative, evasion, and delivering AoO. They usually have spears of several sizes so to both attack at range and threaten an area. They are trying to stop flankers and/or flank the PC's themselves. Levels in rogue can be effective here. Behind the skirmishers on the ends of the main line and spread out are 2-4 archers, optimized for rate of fire and accuracy and with a light backup melee weapon. There initial job is to ready actions to interrupt spell casters. Anyone that tries to cast anything gets arrows going their way. If anyone gets into the back field, there job switches to teaming with the skirmishers and/or any unengaged heavy infantry to beat down the isolated PC. Finally, sandwiched between the archers and behind the front line are 1-3 low level spellcasters. They have spell lists divided along the following lines - battlefield control (area of effect save or suck things, if you want to be abusive, web or entanglement for example), group buffs, and dispels/counters. So essentially we are talking about usually 9-13 non-elite, reasonably equipped but not up the level of elite NPCs, 1st-3rd level characters. I generally rate them at about 1 less CR than their level (because they aren't elite and don't have the equipment expected of an elite NPC). If you really need to crank it up, you can add some 4th to 5th level leaders or elite forces, particularly among the spell casters. Well played, this can challenge PC's anywhere up to high level play, and the same basic theory could be applied to things like ogres, trolls, or giants to keep you going to anywhere up to epic level. Or you can do mixed groups, like say ogre zombies, ghasts, cultist archers, two evil clerics and a necromancer.

And that's just one mode. Another tactical mode is the 'all archer team', about the same number of foes, but instead they spread out with about 20' between archers and try to begin the engagement beyond normal medium range of a spellcaster (beyond 200 feet). Preferably they take partial cover - tree boles, prepared fighting positions, etc. Part of the team readies actions against spellcasters, the rest tries to harrass the team (concentrate fire on single PC's for maximum cheese). In response to attempts to engage individual members of the team, each archer instead tries to fall back using full evasion actions or just running if needed. Don't pull this too often, but the first time you do, it _will_ be remembered.

You can also do an all 'Skirmisher Team', though the best way to pull this is with cavalry - goblins on worgs are my favorite, but hobgoblins on horses are good too. The goal here is to try to prevent the PC's from successfully engaging, negate there ability to use full attack actions, negate thier advantage in the action economy, and use the mounts as both weapons and hit point buffers. Teach the PC's the value of mobility, make them hate ride by attack, and use their own beat down strategy of concentrating attacks on a single foe against them. Oh, and while I'm on it, any intelligent foe that realize he's the single target of all attacks and who has allies is going to make defensive attacks or take the full defensive action. Just don't tell the Pc's that. Make them figure it out.

If you have a narrow front, like a corridor, you can also do all heavy infantry units fighting in ranks with pole arms and the front line going defensive, though that tends to play to the PC's strengths if you just have the options in RAW.

If you don't mind a really long combat, combine one or more tactical teams in the same combat - either the same or varied groups. Those of you that have played 4e probably have realized that they tried to design the game to teach you to do this very thing, but its not a distinctive feature of 4e. You can find prototypical humanoid force packages all the way back to Gygax.

Next post, I'll talk about the tactical considerations of summoned monsters.
 
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Ok, summoned creatures:

1) The overwhelming drawback of a summoned creature is they are usually only around for a few rounds. They are on a clock. Any intelligent being in a universe containing summoned creatures should recognize when monsters start popping out of the ground in a blaze of smoke and burning brimstone, that they are only going to be around for a while and try to delay beginning the battle as long as possilbe. Depending on the range you might try, 'Everyone take 10 steps back' or 'Everyone in contact goes full defensive', but depending on the terrain and your mobility an even smarter plan might be "'Everyone run away for 60 seconds, and then we'll come back and restart the battle in a few minutes when the enemies spell buffs go away. If the enemy is caught off gaurd by our return, so much the better." In particular, notice how an all archer or all skirmisher force on open ground handles a conjured monster with ease simply be doing thier normal delaying tactics. They don't even necessarily have to shoot at it, just get away from it and deal with the more important long term threats (the PCs). In general, this is good tactic for responding to spellcasters that have a tendency to go nova and cast a lot of short term buffs. Fall back, regroup, try again. Why try to get into a suicidal pitched battle? Think about how an encounter with cavalry or archers plays out if the party tries to chase, and watch for oppurtunities to go after isolated or unprotected spellcasters. It's the equivalent of trying to take out artillery or other crewed weapons on a modern battlefield (and by modern, I mean everything since about the 18th century). And keep in mind, in the real world these kind of fade tactics were actually employed. They aren't gamist cheese (well, they aren't only gamist cheese). The Mongols were masters of it. "Ok, so the enemy has taken up a strong defensive position and is well organized. Let's pretend to retreat, and when they lose organization trying to chase us, then we'll turn on them and attack." The same basic principle is at work.

2) Enemy forces should make a point of interrupting spell casters - Tactically, this is often the most important thing you can do in a battle. "If I see anyone that looks like a spellcaster dancing around, waving their hands, and muttering, I'm going to shoot them" is the default first order strategy of NPC archers. It's often better for archers to not attack, than to risk missing oppurtunities to disrupt spell casters. Force concentration checks. Put the caster in jeapordy, or in continous areas of effect.

3) As I said, just having a first level caster who can cast 'Protection from X' is often good enough to twart summoned creatures. Think about how different a fight with a Troll plays out if the Troll has two or three levels of cleric to cast 'Protection from Good' and 'Resist Energy'. If you outnumber your foe, then you are ahead on the action economy and so plays like Counterspell or 'Dispel Magic' become much more effective. As the PC's get up above 10th level, 'Dismissal' and 'Dispel Good' should become more common counters by enemy spellcaster leaders. Think how a debuff like 'Slow' could potentially help a tactical team far more than a 5d6 fireball could.
 
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In truth if it comes to that perhaps I am better at choosing another game.
I think that depends on what sort of RPGing experience you are after. Different systems can tend to push a game into different directions, as some of the suggestions on this thread for PF show.

One thing I would recommend you think about, though, is this: if the "reality" of your gameworld is being shaped around a particular way that your system handles spellcasting and magical power, remember that there is nothing foreordained about a fantasy RPG handing out that particular power to that particular spellcaster in that particular way. There are a lot of fantasy RPGs out there with a lot of different approaches to magic.
 

I have concerns myself still about Pathfinder and the ever increasing power levels after running it for about six months now. It seems like a huge increase over 3.5, but that is where the players and the support is these days. Not even looking at D&D Next.
 

I have concerns myself still about Pathfinder and the ever increasing power levels after running it for about six months now. It seems like a huge increase over 3.5, but that is where the players and the support is these days. Not even looking at D&D Next.

For myself, I've been pretty much forced to walk away from both WotC and Pazio. I walked away from WotC when 3.5 came out and took 3.0 (which I mostly loved on release) mostly further from where I wanted it to go continuing the trends of Prestiges classes and power creep and excessive player centeredness that I felt was ruining 3.0. And I haven't been able to turn back to Pazio even though I think its a great company, because Pathfinder is mostly a continuation of D&D 3.5 and has most of the same problems.

This had happened to me before. I was increasingly frustrated late in 1e by rules problems, and 2e frustrated me by having too few good ideas for cleaning the game up and leaving me largely in the same mess. I largely ignored 2e and kept plugging away at my own house rules (which were like a really janky version of 3e, right down to AoO's and monsters having an attribute array) until I eventually was snowed under the complexity of keeping track of a rules set that was increasingly at odds with the rules as written and left D&D completely for other rules systems.

However, that was before I owned a word processor, before the SRD gave me a starting template, before the wealth of originality that poured out because of the OGL inspired my imagination, and before I could just email a 500 page document to a new player. Now, I'm managing really well having a house rules set that is increasingly diverging from mainstream D&D. I love my current rules, and I love the direction my rules are going in.

I just hate that it makes it almost impossible to justify sending money to anyone in the industry because their content is increasingly useless to me.
 

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