D&D 4E How to build encounters in 4e (aka Only you can prevent Grindspace!)

[YuriPup]

Ok just to be clear. The longest range I have found so far is 20/40 on the long bow. I have started 3e encounters at 1000 yards--as it was on the relatively flat tundra of Everfrost (EQ).

It worked well.

If I was designing an encounter where I wanted to give my smart/experienced PCs a chance for some ranged shooting I would start the combat at at least 80 boxes (400 feet)--to allow for some maneuvering before coming straight at each other.

I think my entire group needs to get used to just how many HP 4e monsters have--boatloads compared to 3e.

 

[DrSpunj]

Sure, that's a good tactic. I can't see why they would leave their fire support behind however, if they're an organised and intelligent force.

I'd certainly try to play 'organised & intelligent' foes that way, but these stupid undead were simply under orders to keep the PCs from interfering with the hooded ritual caster for a few rounds while he finished his casting (after which, he left!). While one or more of them may have stood in the doorway if there were PCs to attack on the other side, in my mind that pretty much translated to 'no reason to leave this room'. So they could've dropped one of the Chillborn Zombies and maybe a few minions with this tactic but it was only going to allow more minion waves to hit them in the long run.

 

[Nail]

...So they could've dropped one of the Chillborn Zombies and maybe a few minions with this tactic but it was only going to allow more minion waves to hit them in the long run.

The hint to me (the player) to just charge in: the passageway outside the room wasn't "drawn in" on the gaming table map. Only the encounter room existed. That's the DMs way of saying "just get in the room and start the encounter already!"

 

[cjais]

The hint to me (the player) to just charge in: the passageway outside the room wasn't "drawn in" on the gaming table map. Only the encounter room existed. That's the DMs way of saying "just get in the room and start the encounter already!"

Hehe, I'm guilty of doing that, too. If my players try to flee the scene, I'll draw the necessary terrain, but otherwise I hardly ever bother.

 

[jedrious]

I actually did something in one encounter to ensure the party entering the room, I had a flame jet trap lining the walls of the hallway with the control panel in the room

traps, hazards and unusual terrain are good ways of ensuring the party enter the encounter area for some dynamic tactical maneivering

 

[Vayden]

Interesting discussion by all on the old "find a chokepoint and bunker down" PC strategy. I like all of the suggestions for adapting and dealing with it everyone's mentioned. My own personal response is to avoid hallways and doorways as much as possible. I think about 80% of my encounters take place on a street/in the wilderness somewhere, with only a few in actual real dungeons.

<ramble> Part of it may be that I got my start in roleplaying with Aberrant, part of it may be the DMs I've learned from, part of it may be the fact that I try and set my adventures up more like a movie than a traditional adventure (gotta love a good soaring background picture). A lot of it though is just that I hate fights that revolve around tiny little halls and doorways - I like lots of room for everyone to move and react.

I don't remember exactly where I read this - I think it might have been the 3.5 DMG, but I'm not sure - someone was discussing the difference between dungeon adventures and wilderness adventures, and they said something that stuck with me. The dungeon is popular because it's relatively easy to keep things straight - you know that the players are going to have to go through room A and fight the drow before they can reach either room B (with the lava trap) or room C (with the beholder). It's a natural, organic set of rails that help you have a little more control over the timeline and planning without being forceful. It's also easy to plan out - you just get some graph paper and sketch out the floorplan.

But if you think about it, this article said, you can design an out-door adventure in basically the same way - maybe instead of a locked door and a hallway separating rooms B and C from the entrance, it's a mountain pass patrolled by drow scouts. You can also use fog of war to create "hallways" - the players finish off the drow and set off through the woods - you ask them if they're heading west or north - if they go west, they "travel through the thick rocks and boulders" until the river of lava blocks their path - if they go north, the thick woods eventually open out into a wide clearing with a small ruined tower in it (beholder lair). You can also use time passage and cause and effect as "hallways" in an outdoor adventure. Just remember that the players don't know the map, you do - if they go south instead of west or north, maybe your beholder lair was always to the south.

Of course, you have to have a gentle touch with this, and make sure you never contradict anything you're previously given the players as information. Still, I find outdoor adventures much more fun than dungeons personally. </ramble>

 

[Vayden]

Slightly off-topic, but I just read this editorial from Dungeon - Dungeon Editorial: Dungeon #162. In it, Chris Youngs mentions the idea of scrapping xp and just leveling the characters up at thematically appropriate points. Dausuul started doing this as soon as we started playing 4e, and after stalling for a bit, I've joined him. As long as your players know it going in and are okay with it, I've found it to be a much more organic and fun way to go.

 

[shilsen]

Slightly off-topic, but I just read this editorial from Dungeon - Dungeon Editorial: Dungeon #162. In it, Chris Youngs mentions the idea of scrapping xp and just leveling the characters up at thematically appropriate points. Dausuul started doing this as soon as we started playing 4e, and after stalling for a bit, I've joined him. As long as your players know it going in and are okay with it, I've found it to be a much more organic and fun way to go.

Seconded. I've been DMing that way for years, and all the DMs with whom I play now use that method, and IMNSHO it's the best way of using XP in the game.

And to tie it back into this thread's topic, one of the significant advantages of untying XP from combat (or other) encounters is that it means the DM doesn't have to spend time and effort on whether the encounters will provide enough XP (or too little/much) for the group. It also ensures that players will not have a metagame response to encounters based on the fact that they gain XP from them, but will simply respond to them as seems most fitting for the situation and the character(s).

 

[Nail]

Hrrmmmm.

Just so this is out there: I'm a player who likes being awarded XP at the end of each session. It shows my PC has done something, and underlines how well my PC has done it. It also allows me as a player to anticipate when my PC will "level", rather than relying on the DM to (apparently arbitrarily) say "you gain a level" whenever he feels like it.

Additionally, since the games I attend are only 4 hours long, and so it takes several sessions to level up, getting XP each time illustrated progress that might otherwise be obscured.

YMMV

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Darren from Edmonton, don't read this until after the 17th.

Vayden, my current adventure arc is outdoors, and it plays fine so far (only one session in so far). Basically, the players start at the top of a mountain (they got there via magic portal) and are working their way down to town. It both allows me open terrain AND to set encounters in the order I want. Additionally, it allows me to set appropriate rests for the players, simply but putting significant distance between encounters.

To start, they arrive in the abandoned temple housing the portal, where they faced a couple of giant spiders. They arrive at night, so they camp down. Not long after dawn they are attacked by some goblin scouts, who saw their campfire the night earlier (this is how far we've gotten). Next session, they will travel down the mountain and stumble on a goblin raiding party's base camp

Night falls and they will likely take a second extended rest.

They then proceed down the mountain and discover an ambush being set by the goblins for an expected caravan. The characters attack and turn the ambush. 5 minutes later, the rest of the raiding party stumbles on them, and I have an epic battle. Players victorious (hopefully), they go to town and level up (XP is planned to take them to level 2).

This also bookends nicely with the in world progression I have - the characters are 3.5 characters who are portalled to a world where things work differently, and thus need to "discover" their new abilities. For the battle with the spiders, they got only at wills, over their first rest they figure out how to use encounter powers and can use them against the scouts and base camp, then they rest during which they figure out their dailies, which they can use against the ambush and the rest of the raiding party.

So, I see out door adventures no more difficult than indoor - you just need to plan it as an adventure.

I plan to use a similar setup after they arrive at town and start adventuring in the environs , setting up planned encounters that seem spontaneous from a plot perspective (hopefully ).


Dr. Ruminahui - shrink with a spear