How to "capture" players using 4E rules?

[Kishin]

I'd be very careful with this. You say that you don't want it to be railroading, but the fact that you've already decided the encounter's outcome ahead of time means that it is. Players tend to react badly having characters captured, especially if they feel like the deck was purposely stacked against them (I speak from experience.)

If you really want the campaign story-arc to involve the players being captured, I'd suggest getting player buy-in on the idea, and not use game mechanics at all.

I don't see how this is railroading. They have distinct options in this scenario. They can always join their foe, as he said.

They can also always run. Of course, 99% of all D&D parties never, ever consider this as a remote option or necessity.

 

[Obryn]

The biggest problem with capturing characters in 4e, as I've found through experience, is what happens afterwards.

Let's say they have a hard fight. They drop half their foes or so, and then get knocked out in a pseudo-TPK. Well, what happens then?

BTB, they tend to recover up to full and kick the snot out of their captors without a hard fight, at all. Now they're facing only half their foes, and they're fresh as spring rain.

I ended up instituting a ruling that the PCs don't recover healing surges, can spend only limited surges, and don't get their Dailies back while they are held prisoner. In other words, they don't get a free extended rest out of their captivity...

-O

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I'd be very careful with this. You say that you don't want it to be railroading, but the fact that you've already decided the encounter's outcome ahead of time means that it is...If you really want the campaign story-arc to involve the players being captured, I'd suggest getting player buy-in on the idea, and not use game mechanics at all.

I strenuously agree. Let the players know that you'd like to have the PCs captured to further the story. Knowing that, most good players will be okay with it.

 

[Riley]

The biggest problem with capturing characters in 4e, as I've found through experience, is what happens afterwards.

...BTB, they tend to recover up to full and kick the snot out of their captors without a hard fight, at all. Now they're facing only half their foes, and they're fresh as spring rain.

I ended up instituting a ruling that the PCs don't recover healing surges, can spend only limited surges, and don't get their Dailies back while they are held prisoner. In other words, they don't get a free extended rest out of their captivity...

-O

Yes, this is the situation that I was pondering yesterday: given that no focus, material component, weapon or even verbal or somatic component is required for many powers, how will any PC ever stay a prisoner for more than 5 minutes?

This solution might work. Are there others?

 

[Greatwyrm]

Yes, this is the situation that I was pondering yesterday: given that no focus, material component, weapon or even verbal or somatic component is required for many powers, how will any PC ever stay a prisoner for more than 5 minutes?

Well the terms short and extended rest imply the PCs get to rest. I wouldn't say someone beaten unconscious and then tied up is really taking a breather. I'd probably use something similar to the rules for weather and environmental dangers in the DMG.

This solution might work. Are there others?

Poison their food?

 

[jbear]

The parlay could take place while the heroes stand on a trap somewhat akin to the Jabba the Hutt floor trap in Return of the Jedi. Even if only some or one of the heroes falls down into the pit with the massive solo beast inside, the others will be hard pressed not to fall in pressured by the enemies above (with push or slide abilities). The enemy suggests they surrender if they wish to live, while enjoying the spectacle.

If the whole party falls in the pit they should be able to manage to defeat the enemy's pet after an arduous fight as their enemies above watch on amused. Despite victory, they are still at the bottom of a pit surrounded by fresh enemies. Disallow a short rest due to the danger of the situation. Any option other than surrender will be pretty tough with this disadvantage. If they refuse to lay down their weapons a good old fashioned stoning til unconscious should suffice.

If only some fall in, they should not be able to take down a solo creature, there lives will be at serious risk, and surrender may seem like an attractive option. Those above will be too hard pressed to be able to help. A decent enemy leader should target the PC's leader, focus fire until s/he drops and then 'suggest' surrender again.

Still, even though the odds are stacked heavily against the PC's, noone might fall in at all, their resourcefulness and lucky dice rolls may surprise you. you should be open to your PC's acheiving a unlikely victory or managing to escape and thwarting your carefully laid plans. Maybe this could add a surprising new twist to the story as they run into the hands of an even more dangerous threat, or freedom is bought at the price of making even stranger bedfellows. An enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that...

Actually a third alternate story thread (escape in this case) might be a good thing to include in the encounter/story design from the beginning whether they manage to achieve it or not. What if some escape leaving their fallen companions behind?... 'every man for themselves!!!!'

Why is it so important they either join or are captured?

 

[Michael Silverbane]

I think that your best bet is to start the adventure by saying, "you are captured..."

 

[Dausuul]

Yes, this is the situation that I was pondering yesterday: given that no focus, material component, weapon or even verbal or somatic component is required for many powers, how will any PC ever stay a prisoner for more than 5 minutes?

This solution might work. Are there others?

Well, when you're being shoved along at swordpoint with your hands tied, you don't get to take a short rest. By the time you do get to rest, there's more guards.

And I agree that being carried along unconscious, slung over some guy's shoulder, is not a "rest" in any meaningful sense of the word.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

This is one reason actually why Rests, Encounter Powers, etc. I changed to being between "Scenes". So you being captured till you get free, released is one Scene. So you can't gain your Powers back till the Scene is done which be after the fact.

 

[Hjorimir]

Wow...I'm feeling like the odd man out. Even as a player, a campaign where it is assumed that all encounters are beatable is something I'd fine BORING. If the playres are assumed to win all of the time I don't see the glory in victory or the value of decision making (especially when deciding if the group should fight or try to find a different way).

As a DM, I wouldn't hesitate to give the PCs the beat down if the campaign story/plot made it reasonable. Saying that, it certainly isn't something I'd do very often, but I wouldn't rule it out either. But, just so I'm being clear, I wouldn't assume the PCs lose either; I'd just build the encounter on what makes sense and see how it plays out.

Oh well, to each their own!