How to deal with death in RPG?

[Imaculata]

I tend to prepare a lot of environment and a lot of plot. But the plot is designed in such a way that the players are able to alter it.

So if the players ignore what I planned for them, and negate a situation by being clever (or blunt), that's fantastic. I've never been in a situation where the players did something I didn't expect, and I didn't like it. The trick is to not 'intend' for the players to do anything. They can do whatever they want. If they say "screw the riddle, lets kill that thing", then more power to them.

 

[Umbran]

I'm not sure exactly what "screw this!" from the players is in this context. But I'm only playing games that my players want to play.

Yeah, you don't get what we are talking about, it has nothing to do with choice of game.

There are times when players are trying an approach, and are frustrated, or it rubs them the wrong way. They say "screw this," and do something else.

Imagine the party is in a long, boring negotiation with a bad guy, and the barbarian finally gets fed up and says, "Screw this!*" draws his axe, screams and leaps....

That's the kind of thing we are talking about. Radical alteration in party direction, typically due to dissatisfaction on either the player's or the charcter's part.






*No, the barbarian doesn't come from a culture that has screws. He picked the word up from the party gnome, along with use of napkins and an understanding that in most of the world you don't throw your flagon at someone's head when it is empty**.

**Whether it was the flagon or the head that was empty was never made clear.

 

[Umbran]

Players do all kinds of amazing and wonderful stuff!

I agree.

There's a well known trick - prepare situation/environment not plot...

Oh, good grief. Really?

How about we dispense with the myth that GMs are typically preparing pre-written plot in the sense of a predetermined novel? Could we, just *once* recognize that for RPGs there's a meaning of "plot" that doesn't restrict player choice like they were on rails? Because having to re-litigate this EVERY. DARN. TIME. against this patronizing rhetorical bait-and-switch gets really old. REALLY. OLD.

 

[pemerton]

There are times when players are trying an approach, and are frustrated, or it rubs them the wrong way. They say "screw this," and do something else.

Imagine the party is in a long, boring negotiation with a bad guy, and the barbarian finally gets fed up and says, "Screw this!*" draws his axe, screams and leaps....

That's the kind of thing we are talking about. Radical alteration in party direction, typically due to dissatisfaction on either the player's or the charcter's part.

I don't think this makes me depart from my earlier post, where I said my experiences are like what [MENTION=463]S'mon[/MENTION] described.

The "long, boring negotiation" that you describe, resulting in player frustration/dissatisfaction, isn't a part of my play experience.

 

[DMZ2112]

But I'm only playing games that my players want to play.

It's probably trite to say it, but I will anyway: I think that pretty key to running a RPG system is to know what you want to get out of it, and to play to that, relying on the system to deliver.

Gee, thanks, Pemerton, Immortal Sun and I have been over here all this time forcing our players to play games we have barely a minimum understanding of, and now we know better. I'm desperately grateful to you for pointing out our error. /s

I don't know -- maybe I run for complete strangers more often than you and S'mon do, or maybe I have more players in my long-time regular crew who enjoy tossing a monkey wrench into things just for the sake of introducing a little chaos.

Either way, the phenomenon I'm observing is a known quantity -- Etsy and Imgur, let alone the existence of this thread, more than confirm it -- so while I'm sorry you don't have anything constructive to add to this conversation, I guess I'm happy for you that your personal experiences are such positive outliers?

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Players do all kinds of amazing and wonderful stuff!

There's a well known trick - prepare situation/environment not plot, and however the pcs react is cool.

Exactly. As a referee I’m just reacting to what the players are doing based on the environment I’ve presented to them. Stab the guy with the riddle instead of parlay? Either way is fine with me.

 

[DMZ2112]

Imagine the party is in a long, boring negotiation with a bad guy, and the barbarian finally gets fed up and says, "Screw this!*" draws his axe, screams and leaps....

That's the kind of thing we are talking about. Radical alteration in party direction, typically due to dissatisfaction on either the player's or the charcter's part.

Having been in more or less exactly this situation, I'd like to add that what is really disappointing about it has less to do with, "Boo hoo, the players won't get to solve my clever riddle now," and more to do with, "Who does this douchebag think he is, making unilateral decisions for the party like this?"

It's not about plot vs. environment, it's about trying to construct a play experience that's fun for everyone and having that negated. Emergent engagement and fun are one thing; emergent boredom or frustration is another, and unfortunately is no less possible an outcome from the soup of uncertainty that a good gamemaster keeps simmering (Pemerton's and S'mon's perfect tables notwithstanding, of course).

My point, he says, in a bold attempt to steer this subthread back toward the topic, is that if you have a group where character death results in emergent engagement and fun, then that is great, and you should embrace it. But I don't think that's the OP's situation, and clinging to encounter lethality out of a belief that natural consequences are more valuable than player intention is foolish in the extreme.

 

[S'mon]

I don't know -- maybe I run for complete strangers more often than you and S'mon do

Naw, I GM at a my public Meetup, I have strangers joining/trying it out most weeks I think.

 

[S'mon]

Exactly. As a referee I’m just reacting to what the players are doing based on the environment I’ve presented to them. Stab the guy with the riddle instead of parlay? Either way is fine with me.

Exactly. I always enjoy unexpected outcomes - though some other players may not enjoy it if their riddle-solving or negotiation is derailed by violence.

 

[S'mon]

It's not about plot vs. environment, it's about trying to construct a play experience that's fun for everyone and having that negated. Emergent engagement and fun are one thing; emergent boredom or frustration is another, and unfortunately is no less possible an outcome from the soup of uncertainty that a good gamemaster keeps simmering (Pemerton's and S'mon's perfect tables notwithstanding, of course).

Maybe the disconnect here is that I take what Noisms calls a "You are responsible for your own orgasm" approach to player fun. I'm there to provide the opportunity for fun - not to guarantee it. If one player gets annoyed at another player 'derailing' the session then that is between them. I'm happy to adjudicate either way, I just ask them to keep it In Character.

It's certainly not the case that every player I GM'd for always enjoys every session. That wasn't what I said at all.