How to Legally Overcome Flatfooted

[KarinsDad]

One of the problems I have with the DND initiative system is that you are flatfooted both in the surprise round and in round one until your initiative comes up.

There are many situations where I think this does not make sense. For example, the PCs are talking to the head of the Thieves Guild and one of his lieutenants suddenly decides to attack. All of the PCs were there, all of them were aware of the thieves in the room, all of them were ready for an attack, but suddenly the lieutenant gets to catch a PC totally flatfooted just because he won initiative.

What is worse is that if he wins initiative, the lieutenant can weave through all of the PCs and sneak attack the PC Wizard and none of the Wizard’s allies can so much as get an Attack of Opportunity against him.

Imagine how illogical it sounds for the PCs to melee assassinate the King by rushing 30 feet to his throne, and none of the King’s guards who are 5 feet away from the king can interpose in time, even though they were alert.

Ditto for the bandits shooting arrows from ambush during the surprise round and again on round one if they have a better initiative. You could get upwards of 5 arrows from a bandit (1 on a surprise round and 4 on round 1 for a 16th level bandit) fired before a PC can react.

So to avoid this issue, I have come up with a plan for the PCs to sidestep this rule within the rules.

As a surprise action, one PC declares that he is readying to attack (or pull out his weapon, or whatever) if anyone attacks him. This automatically puts the situation into combat, regardless of whether anyone is actually fighting.

So, any situation where the PCs meet a group of people and are unsure of their intentions, one PC could ready an attack if he is attacked.

PCs could also do this when they come to a dungeon door. One PC declares that he will attack if anyone attacks him and it puts it into combat, even if they are unaware of any enemy. Then, the PC who is opening the door merely waits for a round or two before opening it.

Now, this does not help against the two attacks by a bandit with surprise in a surprise round and in round one and a PC might still be flatfooted, but it helps in other situations. Personally, I prefer a rule that you are only flatfooted in the surprise round and not in round one to solve the problem, but that is a house rule.

 

[Felix]

I'd allow readied actions against folks you're aware of, but not that you're unaware of.

For instance, the Royal Guards with their halberds standing by the throne can 5-foot step and attack if some crazy person suddenly runs at the King, but if the guy is invisible and the silent, then the attack on the King will not trigger the action.

Sure, you won't get AoO's, but you suddenly won't be flatfooted anymore, and so further actions will provoke AoO's as normal.

 

[Ferrix]

Royal Guards + Glaives + Combat Reflexes

AoO when flat-footed with ten foot reach.

Combat Reflexes is always a good solution for that. Otherwise, the best thing to do is also bump their initiative.

A nice solid Royal Guard would be probably a fighter 4 or something like that, for a human, that's 6 feats. Give 'em Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip or Disarm and give a few of them Ranseurs and Guisarmes and it'll be a fun time trying to get through the king without falling down (trip) or being relieved of your weapon (disarm). And that is just in core, perhaps even just have them wield spiked chains, thus they don't have to switch weapons to close and they get a bonus to both disarm and trip.

With some of the optional books they can get even nastier with feats like Hold the Line, Deft Opportunist, Expert Tactician, etc.

 

[KarinsDad]

I'd allow readied actions against folks you're aware of, but not that you're unaware of.

For instance, the Royal Guards with their halberds standing by the throne can 5-foot step and attack if some crazy person suddenly runs at the King, but if the guy is invisible and the silent, then the attack on the King will not trigger the action.

What about the case of the dungeon door?

Do you allow the PCs to ready actions when they open the door because they suspect that enemies might be within?

 

[KarinsDad]

Royal Guards + Glaives + Combat Reflexes

AoO when flat-footed with ten foot reach.

Combat Reflexes is always a good solution for that. Otherwise, the best thing to do is also bump their initiative.

I don't like solving game mechanic problems with feats. That means that some characters can avoid the problem and others cannot.

 

[Ferrix]

Yes, I generally would let them ready actions against foes they think might be there, although if they generally have to be relatively specific.

i.e. if they're opening a door, the fighter and the rogue stand on opposite sides to get flanking benefits.

Fighter says: I ready to attack anything that comes through the door
Rogue says: ditto

Results:
They open the door, if they are attacked say by missile fire or reach weapons, their readied actions are useless (no one came through the door). If say a bugbear charges through the door to strike at the wizard standing in back, they get their readied attack and any potential attacks of opportunity. Or if an invisible opponent dashed through they'd get no chance to take a swing cause to them, no one came through the door.

Basically, not all combats involve surprise rounds, sometimes both parties are aware that there is a very high chance of a threat and thus are not surprised. Although they may go later in the initiative order meaning they might not have got their defences up in time.

Check out the SRD:

Determining Awareness

Sometimes all the combatants on a side are aware of their opponents, sometimes none are, and sometimes only some of them are. Sometimes a few combatants on each side are aware and the other combatants on each side are unaware.

Determining awareness may call for Listen checks, Spot checks, or other checks.

They say aware here, and don't use specific language like "see". Thus I think if the characters have enough reason to believe that there is a threat, via listen checks or even sheer paranoia, I might give them the benefit of the doubt sometimes.

 

[Ferrix]

I don't like solving game mechanic problems with feats. That means that some characters can avoid the problem and others cannot.

I don't think it's a game mechanic problem, someone who isn't trained to react quickly (Combat Reflexes or Improved Initiative) very well can be overcome by a swifter assailant who gets the jump on them. It's how the world works. Additionally, if you aren't trained/skilled awareness wise (spot/listen vs. hide/move silently or bluff vs. sense motive) it is also easy to be had in the same sort of situation.

 

[ken-ichi]

I would like to note that you cannot ready an action out of combat. Out of combat you can state that you are training a crossbow on a door if someone enters it, but that is not a readied action. It would put you in a state of preparedness that would make it very hard to get a surprise round on you by entering through the door, but initiative would still be rolled when someone enters the door.

 

[Ferrix]

It really depends on how you interpret the start of combat which is not specifically stated in the SRD. It states how combat works but not how it is started.

 

[Seeten]

I am not sure I'd call anything a "Surprise round" if the pc's were not actively surprised. In other words, if I expect an attack in the thieves guild, being attacked would be an initiative roll, not a surprise round, at least IMC.

A surprise round would be when the thief sneaks up and wins the opposed spot roll, then he gets all his various sneak attacks and such. If they watch him coming, it isnt a surprise.

Same with your charging fighters. That isnt a surprise, its an attack, call for an initiative roll. Soon as the guards see you tense and charge, they ready. Winner of initiative acts first, and no one is surprised.