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"How to make a Monster Manual Pt II" article

Hussar

Legend
Fair enough. OTOH, if your combats are running into double digit rounds, why aren't you killing PC's?

The math says you should. A given creature of a comparable CR can easily do 10% of a PC's hp/round. In fact, most creatures can do significantly more than 10%, but, we'll leave it there for now. If you're regularly fighting 10+ round fights, someone should be dying. Regularly.

Having run the World's Largest Dungeon from 1st to 18th level, I ran a couple of hundred fights. Easily. You can see the transcripts here. Note, these are all strictly SRD monsters, as core as you can get. And, while I know I had a few 10 round grudge matches, by far most of the fights were between 2-7 rounds. So, when they say this, it fits closely with the rather large amount of combat that I've run. Which is why I suspect that the 5 round paradigm is pretty close to the norm.

Going by these articles, some of the worst monsters you could run are liches, high level dragons, and drow fighter/rogues...

From a DM's point of view, they certainly are. Unbelievable headaches. It takes forever to stat them up, rounds take an hour to play and the first Disjunction spell makes the DM tear out his hair. Never mind the fact that Mr Lich probably won't use 90% of the material you create for him. So, yeah, if you have to slow the game down to a snails pace and spend huge amounts of time developing the fight beforehand, that would pretty much be the worst choice to make.
 

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MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
I really hate high-level dragons. Spellcasting? Nuh. Get rid of it. It distracts from what a dragon should be:

Dragon: Claws, Bite, Breath & Fear Aura.

Cheers!
 

Hussar

Legend
Merric, I'm with you. When I use high level dragons, I simply pick a dragon from a couple of CR's up the scale, drop the spell casting and go with that. The higher CR dragon has enough extra hp's, ac and damage that it simulates pretty much all the buffs he would have had from spells anyway.

Sorry, hate the idea of a dragon standing off and blasting away with Horrid Wilting. Hate hate hate.
 

Kaodi

Hero
Why does a dragon have to use Horrid Wilting though? Why not Mind Blank, Incendiary Cloud (if a fire-breather), Discern Location, Mass Charm Monster, Power Word Stun, Sympathy or any other spell that allows you to do something that could be described thematically, or done off-screen?
 

Benimoto

First Post
Kaodi said:
Why does a dragon have to use Horrid Wilting though? Why not Mind Blank, Incendiary Cloud (if a fire-breather), Discern Location, Mass Charm Monster, Power Word Stun, Sympathy or any other spell that allows you to do something that could be described thematically, or done off-screen?
If a dragon wants to do something like that, it has a literal hoard of treasure that could enable it to do so. Comparing a dragon's spellcasting levels to its treasure, almost any spell it wants to cast, it can find a magic item for. Just have the dragon use a crystal ball, or a wand, staff or rod if you want it to do something exceptional.

The rest of the time, if you just want a dragon for the PCs to fight, just go with Merric's claws, bite, breath & fear aura.
 

Kaodi

Hero
[SARCASM]Yeah! That makes complete sense, since a dragon fiddling with magic items is SO more iconic than a dragon using spells![/SARCASM]
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
MerricB said:
I really hate high-level dragons. Spellcasting? Nuh. Get rid of it. It distracts from what a dragon should be:

Dragon: Claws, Bite, Breath & Fear Aura.

Cheers!

You can have the best of both worlds. The dragon should really be focusing on spells that beef up its already impressive combat abilities and focusing on its survival. I love me a spellcasting dragon with greater magic fang, enervating breath, resist energy, spell resistance, shield, death ward, etc. all in play. It saves them from their relatively pathetic inherent damage reduction and spell resistance and usually obvious energy vulnerabilities.
 

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
Shade said:
You can have the best of both worlds. The dragon should really be focusing on spells that beef up its already impressive combat abilities and focusing on its survival. I love me a spellcasting dragon with greater magic fang, enervating breath, resist energy, spell resistance, shield, death ward, etc. all in play. It saves them from their relatively pathetic inherent damage reduction and spell resistance and usually obvious energy vulnerabilities.

Please, no. That's just asking for trouble. Now I have to scour the books looking for combat spells... which might be dispelled. Put the effects of spells permanently on the dragon in its stats so its CR reflects what it can do - don't give it spells as well.

Cheers!
 

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