How to make LA+2 Elf race capable spellcasters?

[Ferrix]

Actually, there are races which grant equivalent casting ability. For example the Sylph from MMII grants spellcasting as a Sorcerer equal to HD + 4, it's a 3HD Outsider with a LA of +5, other examples are Black Ethergaunts (MMII) who cast as 17th level wizards, White Dragonspawn Template (Dragonlance CS) grant the ability to cast spells as a Sorcerer 1 with a LA +1, and I could go on.

Khaalis' example of the Magical Sorcerer elf is barely worth a +1 LA, take away that bonus feat and you are back to an LA +0 race.

Any LA race, especially higher than +1 is always far weaker as a spellcaster. Drow make far better fighters or rogues, or any other non-spellcasting class.

Level adjustment doesn't take into consideration non-optimal class choices, which is almost always the case with a straight spellcaster.

A good example of this is the Mind Flayer Sorcerer 9 from the Monster Manual. It's definately not a CR 17 threat. The sorcerer levels should be treated as non-associated class levels, thus it'd have a CR of at best 14, more like 13 or so. It even says under the Improving Monsters section that only creatures who already cast spells as a character of a specific spellcasting class treat a spellcasting class as an associated class if it stacks with a racial ability to cast spells as that class already.

For a LA +2 Sorcerer elf subrace, I'd go with something like similar to yours but with the following changed/added.

- +2 Dexterity, +4 Charisma.
-Spells: An elf casts arcane spells as a 1st level sorcerer, this stacks with levels in the Sorcerer class.
-Sorcerous Blood: When casting arcane spells as a sorcerer, an elf receives a +1 racial bonus to caster level checks for the purposes of overcoming spell resistance, level dependent effects, etc. but does not gain additional spells known or spells per day.
-Woodland Sorcery: An elf adds calm animals and faerie fire to his spell list, although he does not automatically know these spells.
-Drop the spell-like abilities in place of woodland sorcery.

 

[Khaalis]

Actually, there are races which grant equivalent casting ability. For example the Sylph from MMII grants spellcasting as a Sorcerer equal to HD + 4, it's a 3HD Outsider with a LA of +5, other examples are Black Ethergaunts (MMII) who cast as 17th level wizards, White Dragonspawn Template (Dragonlance CS) grant the ability to cast spells as a Sorcerer 1 with a LA +1, and I could go on.

The only problem with this is that they are all monster races with inherent racial HD already, with the exception of the template which is already considered to be quite imbalanced and overpowered. Template also dont follow quite the same rules as base races do.

As for the Sylph example, its not much to say that a Sylph casts as a 7th level Sorcerer because they are an ECL of 8th level.

However, there are still no base races, without inherent racial HD that grant spellcasting.

If you want to create such an elf you should make them similar to the Sylph, making them 2HD with the ability to cast as a Sorcerer equal to their racial HD +1, with an LA +2. This would make them the equivalent of a LA+1 character if they continue in sorcerer as they would be casting as a 3rd level Sorcerer but be an ECL 4.

- +2 Dexterity, +4 Charisma.
-Spells: An elf casts arcane spells as a 1st level sorcerer, this stacks with levels in the Sorcerer class.
-Sorcerous Blood: When casting arcane spells as a sorcerer, an elf receives a +1 racial bonus to caster level checks for the purposes of overcoming spell resistance, level dependent effects, etc. but does not gain additional spells known or spells per day.
-Woodland Sorcery: An elf adds calm animals and faerie fire to his spell list, although he does not automatically know these spells.
-Drop the spell-like abilities in place of woodland sorcery.

This is a good idea, but I might even go so far as to say that Woodland Sorcery does add them to spells known. JMHO.

 

[shmoo2]

I like your elf alot btw. Would you mind if I borrowed it for future games of mine?

Feel free!

 

[shmoo2]

I'm following the discussion between Khaalis and Ferrix with interest, since you both obviously know what you are talking about.

It seems to me that the net effect of most of the suggestions is to grant the elves the power of 1 level of sorcerer (and maybe a HD or two).

Wouldn't this be accomplished also by reducing the LA to +1 for (single-classed?) sorcerers only, leaving the LA at +2 for all other classes?

Has anyone else considered using split LAs like this?

 

[Ferrix]

I'm following the discussion between Khaalis and Ferrix with interest, since you both obviously know what you are talking about.

It seems to me that the net effect of most of the suggestions is to grant the elves the power of 1 level of sorcerer (and maybe a HD or two).

Wouldn't this be accomplished also by reducing the LA to +1 for (single-classed?) sorcerers only, leaving the LA at +2 for all other classes?

Has anyone else considered using split LAs like this?

What then constitutes a single-classed sorcerer? If the character takes only sorcerer levels their entire career? Perhaps I took a level of rogue and then went sorcerer all the way, would my level adjustment all of a sudden drop when I took that level of sorcerer? It's a bit of tricky adjudication.

Khaalis, I think if you don't use the level adjustment buy off rules (which not many people do), then it's fine to make a LA +2 "base" race which grants spellcasting as a sorcerer 1, they'll still be behind a LA +0 "base" race who takes two levels of sorcerer. This is especially important with the sorcerer since they get new levels of spells only on even levels unlike a wizard.

Also the Sylph example is not spellcasting as a sorcerer equal to racial HD + 4, but rather HD (of any sort) + 4.

 

[was]

Since their favored class is sorceror, maybe you could add in the level adustment when figuring out the caster level for spell effects. For example, a 5th level elven sorceror would have access to the same quotas and spell levels as any other non-elven 5th level caster, but would then cast Fireball as a 7th level caster doing 7d6 points of damage. That might make them seem to be more 'effective' at spellcasting.