How to read player discomfort...?

[Wik]

Weird. I'm multi-quoting someone's response, and yet it's not because I disagree with them!

I don't mean to downplay anyone's "hang-ups" or whatever, but it comes off as strange to me when we can pretend to murder & rob people, but then some other particular scenario is considered taboo.

I agree, it is kind of odd. But there it is. I think, for me, it's because I've been exposed to fantastic "non-violence" for ever - in Conan movies, for example, he kills a bunch of people, but they're never really killed. And most violence in movies is the same - people die, but they were never really "people". In other scenarios, I don't have that buffer.

Part of the reason, I think, is because as a player, I'm watching the GM describe this scene. And because the GM has full control over what scenes he describes, it subconsciously makes me think that this scene is one in which the GM endorses. This does not happen with violent scenes, but it always seems that way to me when seems become even slightly sexual in nature.

I can understand being uncomfortable with issues, because there are things that I am uncomfortable with. I either ask players beforehand not to delve into that issue, or I will run through the scenario as fast as I can (as DM) so it isn't a focus in the game for too long.

That's what I did as the GM in the garrotte issue. And I've done similar things when I've accidentally hit upon a phobia, because I know how creepy that can be (I'm phobic of earwigs, and they'd be another discomfort zone if they came up in game). GMs who deliberately target someone's phobias are just bad people, in my humble opinion.

It's an act that is pretty much torture for life. I get pretty emotional seeing it simulated in movies. But heck, I ran an NPC once that was a Satyr wanted for raping women. After the PCs turned him in, he was hanged & left in town as a warning to criminals.

I actually have no problem with rape happening in the game world. I have no problem with rape being the origin for 90% of all half-orcs. But I need for it to be implied, and not explicit. When it's implied, I can just sort of say "oh, it happened, and we're gaming". But if it becomes explicit, the game ceases to be fun - even if I get to be the hero that rescues things.

I was thinking about this last night, before going to bed. There are adventures I would run that would seem to conflict with my discomfort zone. For example, imagine a Shadowrun campaign where the PCs have to destroy a bunraku parlour. For those that don't know, a Bunraku parlour is a brothel of sorts, where the women are remotely controlled by a computer program or a drone rigger to pay off a debt (the lucky ones "blank out" while it's happening).

Were I to run it (or be in the game), I'd have no problem with this adventure if it was a "hear the plea from a girl (or boy), do some runner stuff, and then destroy the place." But if, in game, those scenes were explicitly stated, yeah, my skin would start to crawl.

 

[masshysteria]

What I was considering, though, were those PCs who go "off script". I haven't had any of these players in a long time, and I think they're kind of limited to the teenage boy crowd, but I'm talking about those people who often just say "I hit on the barmaid". "

What if, in a game situation, the player goes "what, the barmaid doesn't like me? Okay, well, I take her out back. I have a strength of 18"? How do you respond to that as a GM? Or if you were another player who has my particular discomfort zone?

I've never been in a situation where this has occurred either, but I'd have to ask myself, "Why would the player want this?"

Are they testing boundaries? Trying to find out how far the game can go, what is acceptable and what isn't. Then say, "This isn't that kind of game."

Are they testing the GM? Trying find the GM's limits and what the GM is willing to put up with. Then say, "I'm not going there."

Are they sick and trying to sort real life issues out in game? If so, maybe getting them to professional help is in order. Then say, "Let's take a break."

Are they just being stupid? Then a quick "knock-it-off" is in order.

From this initial read or "gut-check," I'd put together a response. From their reaction, I should hopefully be able to tell if I'm right or not and rephrase as needed.

 

[Sunseeker]

What if, in a game situation, the player goes "what, the barmaid doesn't like me? Okay, well, I take her out back. I have a strength of 18"? How do you respond to that as a GM? Or if you were another player who has my particular discomfort zone?

In this case, the GM has done his job trying to avoid the issue in game, and it still springs up.

No, the GM hasn't, because the response is easy:
"When you stand up and take hold of the barmaid, several large, burly men apprach and take hold of you, and take YOU out back."
or
"When you stand up and grab the barmaid, she plants a fireball in your face."

For what it's worth, my players are a pretty awesome group, and would never actually do that. But even if they did, I could simply say "no, you don't. Quit being an ass" and they'd stop then and there. So it's really a hypothetical question.

"no, stop being an ass" is IMO, both great GMing and a great example of open communication.

 

[Wik]

I've never been in a situation where this has occurred either, but I'd have to ask myself, "Why would the player want this?"

SNIP

I've only been in these occasions a few times, and they happened years ago, when I was still in high school. So I think a part of it is probably just "teenage boy syndrome".

My assessment at the time was that they were newer role-players who were exploring just how open-ended the game was, while at the same time players with a rather uncaring approach to the subject of sexual assault (as in, they hadn't really thought much about what it actually entailed, being teenage boys and, therefore, impervious to harm).

I honestly don't remember how I handled it, but it was probably something like "while you try to do that, orcs attack".

 

[Oryan77]

in Conan movies, for example, he kills a bunch of people, but they're never really killed.

Doesn't Arnold cut off James Earl Jones's head in the Conan movie?
It's been a while since I've seen it, but I swear I remember him holding up that head. But no, I get what you're saying.

And most violence in movies is the same - people die, but they were never really "people".

I actually don't like when movies do that unless it's made for children. I feel like the director is treating me like a child by censoring with faceless kills. But that's just me being selfish & thinking of only my own tastes. I know there are plenty of adults that don't want to see the killing, so I'm not going to be overly critical towards a movie that only has soulless Storm Troopers & Droids dying left and right. Star Wars still had great battles!

it subconsciously makes me think that this scene is one in which the GM endorses.

I've never really thought of it that way. I can see how that could be the case with some DMs. But then I'd say that those are bad DMs; which probably means that that issue is the least of their problems.

Any scenario I throw in the game as a DM is just meant to liven the world up and get the PCs to react. I may still think a controversial scenario is interesting, but it's not because I get cheap thrills from it. It's only because I'm a cynical person that notices more bad things in the real world than good things. So I believe that by adding those bad things to my game world, it makes the world more realistic. And I want to see the PCs right a wrong since I rarely get to see justice in real life. I really see it as being no different than when I describe a clan of orcs murdering peasant villagers. I don't get all bent out of shape over that. So I can't really get upset by a rape scene in the game.

But I need for it to be implied, and not explicit. When it's implied, I can just sort of say "oh, it happened, and we're gaming". But if it becomes explicit, the game ceases to be fun - even if I get to be the hero that rescues things.

Maybe that's what I'm not really considering. I don't have much experience playing under other DMs. I've only had a few DMs in my time. And being overly graphic is not something that I've experienced or even do. I glaze over things like sex when I DM because I don't want to be sexual with other people at the table for the same reason I don't call 1-900 sex lines. That's not a place where I need to go. It's all implied and maybe sometimes we'll get a little bit more involved if it actually improves the game. But I would never go into detail about how a guy is raping a woman in the game or anything like that.

If you're saying that you've experienced your phobia in graphic detail during the game, then I guess what I've said in regards to that doesn't mean much. Cause that's a level of weirdness that I didn't really know about (players being unnecessarily graphic). I wouldn't walk away from the game because I'm offended by the scenario though. I'd be walking away because I think the players are being creepy losers and adding to the negative stereotype of D&D players. I try to make D&D seem cool when I play or talk about it because D&D is cool. I don't want to be involved in any form of D&D that is lame. And graphical rape scenes or anything like that is very lame.

 

[Hungry Like The Wolf]

I've never been in this situation before. I guess I'm lucky DM'ing for a bunch of people raised on violent video games and Tarantino rape/revenge plots.

Although, if this situation did arise then I would want and expect the offended party to let me know, preferably via a note as to avoid awkward details getting out. It's not a really big deal, I mean anybody who fights for their child killing scene or rape/revenge plot to be played out in full would send out massive douche chills.

If something makes somebody uncomfortable, just gloss over it and avoid it in future games.

 

[Richards]

I was GMing a Champions game several decades ago, when one of the players, running a male ninja hero, decided he was going to stab a female supervillain between the legs with his sai. He argued that since it would likely cause a lot of damage, it was "logical" for him to attack her in that fashion.

I told him that I was running a "PG-rated" superhero game, and that there would be no genital strikes with pointy weapons in this game. He grumbled, but accepted the restrictions and we moved on.

Johnathan

 

[Oryan77]

there would be no genital strikes with pointy weapons in this game.

Whew, you had me worried. It's good to know that they can at least do bludgeoning damage to a guys junk. Or else the Dwarven Maul Fighter would be pointless.

 

[pawsplay]

My general belief is that discomfort, even hard discomfort, is part of the entertainment value of an RPG, even perhaps something that makes it personally worthwhile. However, there are situations to back off: If the material triggers someone to the point where someone is not engaged in the game, if it re-traumatizes someone who has experienced real harm, if it kills the group energy, if it becomes an outlet for people to reinforce a lack of empathy rather than develop it. I rarely run "dark" games but I expect a pretty strong buy-in from players. For your average heroic fantasy thingie, I would tend to avoid really icky stuff, just from a mood-breaking standpoint, but there may be situations in the background that present a fairly stark moral situation.

For me, it's really important to be sensitive to what's going on. I don't think it's possible to anticipate all the time when someone might be pushed over the limit. Nor do I think discomfort itself means a limit has been crossed. But when a limit is crossed, it's important to take care of your friends. Acknowledge you brought up something uncomfortable, state that you intended no harm, ask them how they are doing, tell them how important it is to you for everyone to feel safe in your games. Don't make them explain themselves in the moment; when things have calm down, in an hour, or another day, or whenever, then you can ask them what they need.

 

[Haltherrion]

It's a two-fold process. If you suspect there might be issues, sure, talk to the players and sound them out. If you didn't suspect their would be an issue but notice they react oddly, you may need to adjust or back off. If you aren't good at sensing such things, you may want to approach a trusted player and ask them to help you flag such instances but, honestly, you've got your work cut out for you without such a sense. Try to develop it by any means possible.

How? Well, look for times the players response changes dramatically (they suddenly go quiet for instance, or they start getting silly). You can pick up such skills but it will take some years of attention. On the plus side, these are very valuable skills both casually and professionally and well worth the effort of picking up, however hard you may find it. One thing that may help in the meantime is to put yourself in the player's shoes as much as you can to try to think how they do.