How to replace the gp/xp cost for item creation?

[der_kluge]

On a related note, die_kluge did in fact write that book. It's still quite good, I've heard, but so you know...

It's still quite good? Are you trying to imply that I'm not normally capable of writing good books?

Yes, I wrote *most* of it, but certainly not all. I can't take credit for all of it. But, any topic of altering the magic item creation system (something I'm wholeheartedly in favor of), usually gets my standard response of "buy this book", because otherwise my response would be the contents of that book, and well, that would get really old quickly.

And I don't have that much free time anymore.

 

[der_kluge]

Li Shenron, I apologize. Normally when I read a post about altering the XP system for magic item creation, I give my standard response (as above). But, now that I've actually had a chance to read your thread, and since I *ahem* did write the book on magic item creation, I'll give some advice.

I am generally in favor of utilizing the concept of hard-to-find components. The Artificer's Handbook spends a good deal of time outlining why just exchaning large amounts of wealth and XP for a magic item is not only unrealistic, but also really stupid, and IMHO, really lazy on WoTC's part.

Utilizing rare components mean that adventurers have to keep adventuring to find components, or at the very least earning money to buy them from merchants who might have certain curiosities available for sale. This is a much more realistic approach, IMO, and adds a lot of flavor, and potential plotlines to your game.

There is also a concept of instability introduced, whereby if the creator cuts corners, or uses bad materials, or whatever, the item has some sort of quirk or drawback as a result. This can also increase the playability aspect of magic items, and ensures that they are all unique.

There is a distinction drawn between permanent (continuous) items and items that have charges. Wands, potions, and scrolls are all in this category. The concept of an "expiration date" is already implemented for some magic items like candles in the DMG. These have an explicit duration. Our rules cover such things by implementing drawbacks and limitations.

Anyway, those are some of my thoughts. Let me know if you want me to expand on these any further.

 

[Belen]

Have an RP requirement. Either they entire party has to quest to get the materials or the player has to write up half to full page bio on how the item was created etc. That is a good way to limit items because either the entire party is gunning for one item, which is an awesome way to help bring them together, or player laziness means that they do not want to write that much.

 

[Li Shenron]

Instead of spending GP/XP, spend skill points. Or, if you want to be nicer, spend craft points (per UA variant rules).

Yeah, UA's Craft Points could have been one of the options but it's possibly the D&D idea I have disliked most, ever. There's basically not a single aspect of it that I find of my taste, starting from the feeling of it being completely metagaming... However I can imagine that it could fit other DMs with no problem.

 

[Li Shenron]

What about a simple number per level, like 30 and different values for different CMI.

Basically this is probably the point which we can reach at the end. It could be done in a very hard-ruled way, such as saying "you cannot have more than X scrolls/level at a time", but I really hope to find a more elegant way to achieve a similar result.

Potions and other one-use wondrous items (oils, salves, dusts) are the best candidate for an expiration date. Having an expiration date + following the normal rules for crafting time = a caster can only have a limited number (or maybe total value) of these at a time.
A possible drawback is that you won't be supposed to FIND these c.m.i. in most treasures, although there could be occasional exceptions of perfectly preserved potions.

Scrolls have a more durable image in my mind the idea of never founding useful scrolls in ancient dungeons or libraries is not that nice. However this could perhaps being fixed by distinguishing recent scrolls (like normal ones, which you can use to cast a spell) and expired scrolls (the magic energy had already dissipated, but you can use the scroll to copy the spell)? Is that a bad idea?

Wands and Staves are probably going to change seriously. In general I find that wands are boring: I have played a few Sorcerer and it's not nice that your careful work to choose your spells becomes quite unimportant once you can buy wands So for the moment let's forget about wands & staves.

Edit: Ok, since I mentioned it, I might as well tell you straight away
I was thinking of making wands & staves permanent items, in the sense that they recharge slowly in time (e.g. it could be 1 charge/day). Their equivalent gp value will probably need to be increased, but overall they are MUCH easier to handle as p.m.i. like in my 1st post, rather than as c.m.i.

 

[Li Shenron]

(bumping the thread up)

 

[Li Shenron]

To a moderator: would you mind moving the thread to House Rules? I think people in the other forum may be more interested... Otherwise you could just close this and I could open a new updated thread over there.

 

[Darklone]

What I did once: Simply make crafting much more time consuming and quest dependant for Power components.

Expiration dates... I realise this by failure chances for magic items.

 

[Li Shenron]

What I did once: Simply make crafting much more time consuming and quest dependant for Power components.

Yes these 2 can also be used. Although increased time may not help the DM much, as we don't usually count the time passed between adventures. Adventures are effectively happening every now and then, or "in waves", so that years could have passed between two of them. This is mostly to accomodate the idea that in a character's lifespan you can aim to reach 20th level at best.

Quests for components can be nice, better if they aren't separate from the main plot but instead little side-quests, or even accidental (such as encountering a monster from which you can extract magic ingredients).

 

[Piratecat]

Moved as requested!