How to stop a Warden?

Is the warden the only defender?

If not, you don't have a problem. The character is just playing a striker with less damage and more defense. He probably enjoys striking but doesn't like getting KO'd or stunned. Wardens can handle both, and have decent damage output, so a Warden-striker might be a good choice for him. Don't gang the monsters up on him unless it is opportune, target the rest of the party and let the real defender protect them. Praise your player for his unconventional interpretation of class roles. Reward him by occasionally throwing a condition or load of damage his way to be shrugged off.

If he is the only defender you have a problem. And that problem is the player, not the warden. The fact that he doesn't care about the rest of the party is bad. What should happen with a lousy defender is that the rest of the party gets targeted and is in big trouble. If they go down, his low damage output won't be enough to finish the fight. You can't "teach him a lesson" by doing this, because TPKs suck. You also can't just have all the monsters gang up on him, because that's what they want. He doesn't understand that he needs the party, but you can't call him out on it without ruining everyone else's day.

Finally, stunning and hordes of minions are a bad idea. Countering a party that does 'too well' is a basic DM instinct, and a wrong one. You should design your encounters to challenge the players strengths and occasionally (but not catastrophically) reveal their weaknesses.

The most important thing is to talk it over with the player. If he's not interested in defending then the party needs a defender, give the job to another player or an NPC. Consider letting an experienced player control a second character. If he realizes that having no proper defender is a problem and wants to take the role, then your problems are solved. You can now focus attacks against the rest of the party and trust him to help protect them. He might even appreciate the significant increase in oomph his character gets when creatures ignore his mark.

I should note that many fighters in my campaigns play their characters just like your Warden, as alternative strikers. It can work really well as long as the group was some form of defender.
 

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Primarily, making the party sweat involves hitting the other party members and the defender not being able to take everything.
Pretty much this.

Wardens are tough. They're supposed to be tough. His job is to protect the rest of the party, and if he's not doing it, take it out on them. :)

Marks aren't the same as aggro. If your monsters are realizing that the Warden is just absorbing everything they throw at him, they should ignore him as much as possible.

Remember, it's not you vs. him. That's not how it works out. It's not even you vs. the party, though that's closer. You're trying to challenge the party as a whole - not just the one dude.

-O
 


20 AC is not actually very high for a 5th level defender at all.

But the easy answer- don't attack him vs AC.

And if this guy was a great tactician, he wouldn't let the rest of his party members get attacked (which is his job) or start to die.
 

20 AC is not actually very high for a 5th level defender at all.

But the easy answer- don't attack him vs AC.

And if this guy was a great tactician, he wouldn't let the rest of his party members get attacked (which is his job) or start to die.
Wardens are more about HP than AC. I don't hit him often enough because of my rolls. When I do hit him, it really doesn't matter because of his HP.

He is a great tactician. He just doesn't let relationships influence his tactics.
 

Pretty much this.

Wardens are tough. They're supposed to be tough. His job is to protect the rest of the party, and if he's not doing it, take it out on them. :)

Marks aren't the same as aggro. If your monsters are realizing that the Warden is just absorbing everything they throw at him, they should ignore him as much as possible.

Remember, it's not you vs. him. That's not how it works out. It's not even you vs. the party, though that's closer. You're trying to challenge the party as a whole - not just the one dude.

-O
Not trying to vs. the party. Trying to have an adventure that doesn't involve, you know, walking and skipping to level 30. I am looking for DM tips on how to build an encounter that may help me learn how to make the party sweat.

This is a group that has been playing D&D for years. More than twice the time I have been playing.
 


2 artillery, and 1 elite brute should take him down in round 1. Warlord will heal him but from that point on, he'll be fighting an uphill battle which should challenge him sufficiently.

If you're not threatening him, one problem could be you're not doing enough damage.

Level 5 artillery with a recharge power does up to 19 average damage. Let's say one hit, one miss there. If the power dazes or something, the elite brute will have combat advantage and an easier time hitting. Elites can usually make two attacks and have an action point, and maybe if he hits with both attacks he does a rend or something for an extra 5 damage. He should be doing 16 or so damage per hit, let's say he hits 3 out of 4 times, that's 53 including one rend, plus the 19 from earlier, 72 damage, down the warden goes.

It's really not difficult to scare defenders these days with the MM3 damage expressions. In my games, I have the opposite problem, where defenders get too taxed on resources.
 


He is a great tactician. He just doesn't let relationships influence his tactics.
If the rest of the party goes down, he's screwed.

So, if he's actually a great tactician, he won't let you take them down.

If he would, then he's not a great tactician, he's just selfish.
 

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