Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
How to stop Tumblers?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 3348505" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>Only in the current descriptive text of what AoOs represent.</p><p></p><p></p><p>In the reason for the AoO rules in the first place position, AoOs are a game balance mechanic.</p><p></p><p>As such, an AoO opposed roll is a perfectly reasonable game mechanic solution to the problems they were originally trying to solve:</p><p></p><p>1) Spell casters casting spells and there being no reasonable way (readying is not reasonable) for an opponent standing next to him to attempt to stop the spell.</p><p></p><p>2) Archers firing arrows, still being totally defensive, and there being no reasonable way for an opponent standing next to him to attempt to interfere with the shot.</p><p></p><p>3) In a circular initiative system, an ability to react to moving targets as they try to get to or past an area and the defender trying to prevent them from doing so or taking advantage of them doing so.</p><p></p><p>AoOs are not a perfect solution for any of these perceived problems (all of them caused by a segmented circular initiative system), but they are a good first step (better than any 1E or 2E solution).</p><p></p><p></p><p>If WotC had originally set up the avoidance of AoOs as an opposed roll instead of a roll versus a set DC, I suspect strongly that many people on the pro-DC side would be on the pro-opposed roll side, just because that is what they had done for years and because that solution would have been adequately explained by WotC when 3E first came out. Dropping the extra die roll would not be that big of a deal.</p><p></p><p></p><p>When 3E first came out, there was no Immediate Actions. Now there are. Does that mean that the way Feather Fall was handled in 3E was the best way, or an inferior way? Breaking people out of their current mode of thinking is a difficult thing. Now, we have all types of new techniques in the game.</p><p></p><p>When 4E comes out, if opposed rolls to avoid an AoO (instead of a set DC) were to be introduced, some people might grumble about it for a while and eventually it would become part of our gaming culture and most people would forget about it.</p><p></p><p>Your "irrelevant" of today Nail might become the "relevant" of tomorrow. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 3348505, member: 2011"] Only in the current descriptive text of what AoOs represent. In the reason for the AoO rules in the first place position, AoOs are a game balance mechanic. As such, an AoO opposed roll is a perfectly reasonable game mechanic solution to the problems they were originally trying to solve: 1) Spell casters casting spells and there being no reasonable way (readying is not reasonable) for an opponent standing next to him to attempt to stop the spell. 2) Archers firing arrows, still being totally defensive, and there being no reasonable way for an opponent standing next to him to attempt to interfere with the shot. 3) In a circular initiative system, an ability to react to moving targets as they try to get to or past an area and the defender trying to prevent them from doing so or taking advantage of them doing so. AoOs are not a perfect solution for any of these perceived problems (all of them caused by a segmented circular initiative system), but they are a good first step (better than any 1E or 2E solution). If WotC had originally set up the avoidance of AoOs as an opposed roll instead of a roll versus a set DC, I suspect strongly that many people on the pro-DC side would be on the pro-opposed roll side, just because that is what they had done for years and because that solution would have been adequately explained by WotC when 3E first came out. Dropping the extra die roll would not be that big of a deal. When 3E first came out, there was no Immediate Actions. Now there are. Does that mean that the way Feather Fall was handled in 3E was the best way, or an inferior way? Breaking people out of their current mode of thinking is a difficult thing. Now, we have all types of new techniques in the game. When 4E comes out, if opposed rolls to avoid an AoO (instead of a set DC) were to be introduced, some people might grumble about it for a while and eventually it would become part of our gaming culture and most people would forget about it. Your "irrelevant" of today Nail might become the "relevant" of tomorrow. ;) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
How to stop Tumblers?
Top