How to stop Tumblers?

[Particle_Man]

Aside from the Knight special ability, how can one prevent or at least make more difficult the tumble roll to move through one's threatened zone without provoking an Attack of Opportunity?

 

[crazy_monkey1956]

Spells. Hold Person, Slow, and a host of others.

Barring that, damage their dex score to make tumbling harder for them (poison comes to mind).

Also, trip them up. Trip attacks (either unarmed or with a flail or spiked chain or something).

Ready an action to attack anyone that tries to tumble through your threatened area. They may avoid the attack of opportunity by tumbling, but they can't avoid the readied attack.

Caltrops.

Quentin and Marie

 

[Bavix]

Just Add the BAB

The static DC 15 to Tumble through a threatened square and the DC 25 to Tumble through an occupied area with no AoO are a couple of the most broken rules in the D&D game. Even the designers admit they made a mistake by not having the DC set by an opposed roll or the opponent's skill in some way.

I add the threatening or occupying opponent's BAB (base attack bonus) to the DC of the Tumble check. It's fast, easy and, most importantly, takes the combat skill of the opponent into consideration. As written, a tumbler has the same chance to flip past a 1st-level commoner as she does a 20th-level fighter or an ancient red dragon—which is simply ridiculous.

 

[Nail]

...—which is simply ridiculous.

...depending on how you interpret the tumbling skill.

Mobility: "It's simply ridiculous that someone gets the same AC bonus when moving through the threatened area of an ancient red dragon or a 1st level commoner!"

Order of the Bow Initiate PrC - Close Combat Shot: ""It's simply ridiculous that someone can not provoke AoOs when shooting in the threatened area of an ancient red dragon or a 1st level commoner!"

Etc.

 

[DreadArchon]

The static DC 15 to Tumble through a threatened square and the DC 25 to Tumble through an occupied area with no AoO are a couple of the most broken rules in the D&D game. Even the designers admit they made a mistake by not having the DC set by an opposed roll or the opponent's skill in some way.

I add the threatening or occupying opponent's BAB (base attack bonus) to the DC of the Tumble check. It's fast, easy and, most importantly, takes the combat skill of the opponent into consideration. As written, a tumbler has the same chance to flip past a 1st-level commoner as she does a 20th-level fighter or an ancient red dragon—which is simply ridiculous.

Why? Tumble prevents your opponents from taking an Attack of Opportunity. Attack of Opportunity. Like, those things that happen when you let your guard down? Why would you voluntarily let your guard down against the dragon but not the commoner?

By your logic, dragons should get full AoO's against you every round ("Okay, he takes four attacks with his Combat Reflexes and then does a Full Attack Action... your turn.").

Tumble keeps you from letting your guard down. It has nothing whatsoever to do with what your opponents are doing, unless they're doing something to make it hard for you to keep your guard up. I see no reason that it should become more difficult as you become more experienced.

 

[Sound of Azure]

Why? Tumble prevents your opponents from taking an Attack of Opportunity. Attack of Opportunity. Like, those things that happen when you let your guard down? Why would you voluntarily let your guard down against the dragon but not the commoner?

By your logic, dragons should get full AoO's against you every round ("Okay, he takes four attacks with his Combat Reflexes and then does a Full Attack Action... your turn.").

Tumble keeps you from letting your guard down. It has nothing whatsoever to do with what your opponents are doing, unless they're doing something to make it hard for you to keep your guard up. I see no reason that it should become more difficult as you become more experienced.

I think what they're getting at is that a more skilled opponent is better at finding opportunities, and hence is more difficult to tumble past (with a bit of random chance thrown in). While I wouldn't play it that way, I can see why someone would.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

Tumble is anotehr example of WOTC's original assumption that people would not play high level characters. Tumble 15/25 is a worry up until about 8th level, when it becomes a joke to go by someone, and at about level 12 to go through a square.

And many other skills are the same like diplomacy. Hard and well balanced for a character under 8th level or so, but totaly broken at aboutlevel 12-15 (And I am assuming not optimized, if optimized any skill can be broken before 5th level.)

I think the solution is to make a lot more skills opposed ones, or at least a sliding scale based on opponent power.

 

[wildstarsreach]

The static DC 15 to Tumble through a threatened square and the DC 25 to Tumble through an occupied area with no AoO are a couple of the most broken rules in the D&D game. Even the designers admit they made a mistake by not having the DC set by an opposed roll or the opponent's skill in some way.

I add the threatening or occupying opponent's BAB (base attack bonus) to the DC of the Tumble check. It's fast, easy and, most importantly, takes the combat skill of the opponent into consideration. As written, a tumbler has the same chance to flip past a 1st-level commoner as she does a 20th-level fighter or an ancient red dragon—which is simply ridiculous.

This is a house rule and not an official one. It's good but a house rule again.

 

[phindar]

AE uses the opposed roll, and I find that preferable. One of the weaknesses of the set DC is that certain activities are impossible for low-level characters, doable for mid-level characters, and then impossible to fail at for high level characters.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Tumble is anotehr example of WOTC's original assumption that people would not play high level characters.

Nah, I think it's just WotC's assumption that it should be possible for characters with a high Tumble to eventually never provoke AoOs.