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How to stop Tumblers?

Nail

First Post
KarinsDad said:
Tumble and Cast Defensively as opposed checks would strengthen mid to high level Fighters.
Which begs the question: "What are the typical opponents of a mid- to high level Ftr?"

In the campaigns I've run or played in, the answer has never been "tumbling rogues or monks". ;) (How have your games been in this regard? I'm intensely curious.)

We're far off topic now, but our group has found that giving Ftrs more feats (one bonus feat per level) solves most of the power-gap problem.
 

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phindar

First Post
For my money, Opposed checks on Tumble and Concentration aren't a game balance thing; that is, I don't think set DCs break the game or give an unfair advantage to anyone. I just think it makes more sense for those skills to depend on the skill level of the opponent you are tumbling past/casting in front of.

Granted, "makes more sense" is a dubious, highly subjective position to take since everything in combat is an abstraction, but there you go. Everybody tweaks something. (Rpger's are like car enthusiasts that way, we never drive "stock".)
 

Presto2112

Explorer
I've scanned this thread a little bit, and it got me thinking about a slightly more dynamic tumbling DC House Rule.

I thought, like several here, that a static DC for tumbling past or through a threatened space when there are so many different types of opponents, was a little odd, considering almost every other type of action is typicall either an opposed roll or vs some sort of dynamic number. Therefore, I considered adding the tumbler's opponent's Max Dex Bonus (taking armor into consideration) to the tumbling DCs. It isn't as dynamic as adding the opponent's BAB to the DC, but it's more dynamic than "15" or "25".

So far, it's not being well received by the group. Naturally, the biggest opponent to the idea so far is the guy who plays the scout, who'd most be affected.
 

KarinsDad

Adventurer
Nail said:
Which begs the question: "What are the typical opponents of a mid- to high level Ftr?"

In the campaigns I've run or played in, the answer has never been "tumbling rogues or monks". ;) (How have your games been in this regard? I'm intensely curious.)

We have had some tumblers, but it is mostly spell casters who are the real issue.

However, your game or my game doesn't matter as much as what makes sense for game balance for the system as a whole.

Nail said:
We're far off topic now, but our group has found that giving Ftrs more feats (one bonus feat per level) solves most of the power-gap problem.

One reason for doing this is that Prestige Classes for spell casters tend to get their cake and eat it too. In other words, in addition to gaining cool new abilities, they also tend to get full casting level. They lose very few abilities of the original class. That adds to the concept of combatant types appearing weak.

Prestige Classes for combatant types tend to get the cool new abiliites, but do not gain the feats or other abilities of the original class.

This is an inherent design flaw with PrCs. There should be pros and cons for them, especially for spell casters, not just pros.

But, the bigger, better, badder mentality of WotC will never be fixed. They cannot, from a business perspective, afford to put out PrCs that are just "ok". They have to be cool, or they do not garner as many sales.

I personally think that most spell casting PrCs should lose a level of spell casting at level one (the cost for entering the PrC), and then have full spell casting progression afterwards. Really strong ones should lose another at level 6 (level 6 being a special level for most classes which typically increases BAB and all saves). If they have to take more casting levels away, then typically the other abilities of the PrC are just too potent anyway.

Extensive PrC multiclassing would then take a backseat to taking a single PrC because the player really wants it.
 

Nail

First Post
KarinsDad said:
Extensive PrC multiclassing would then take a backseat to taking a single PrC because the player really wants it.
You'll have to remove "frontloading" from PrCs too.
 




KarinsDad

Adventurer
Anguirus said:
In that case, I am unsure why I have SO MANY mediocre PrCs that were put out by WotC.

So that the mediocre ones make the uber ones look good.

Simple supply and demand. :lol:

It only takes a single uber PrC in a book to have tens of thousands of people buy that book.
 

Nail

First Post
KarinsDad said:
So that the mediocre ones make the uber ones look good.

Simple supply and demand. :lol:

It only takes a single uber PrC in a book to have tens of thousands of people buy that book.
:lol:


...<wipes tears from eyes>.....I wonder if that might actually be true......
 

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