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Message: <blockquote data-quote="adam_antio" data-source="post: 6678887" data-attributes="member: 82861">Well, the means to become a Lich are not really bound by level. However, to avoid turning in to a Demilich he needs to routenely cast Imprisonment, a 9th level spell, so yes, most Liches are at least 17th level spellcasters.However Doragmal, this demon prince of ours, agreed to provide him with the spell as long as he succeeds in corrupting the avenging lawful neutral paladin to evil and chaos. For now, he's doing well! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />That said, I don't really like the "the dm does as he pleases" concept here. I'm establishing a precedent by doing so, and it must be something the other players find coherent and just. Any roll I make for tearing his arms off is a roll I will be hit by the next time our dwarven berserker will face an enemy spellcaster! So of course I'm just ruling something out of nowhere, but it must be something that makes sense!</blockquote>