How to un-cheese D&D?

[xnosipjpqmhd]

Ok, I (and to a differing extent, my players) think D&D is full of cheese. It's gotten hokey. (Ok, it's been hokey for quite some time...) This hasn't been a problem in the past, as I usually write my own adventures, but now I want to run an Adventure Path, so I'm embracing cheesiness in my current campaign 'cause I'm lazy, but I wish I could run a more toned down and believable game using published modules. Whenever I read a published module, I still get a strong desire to take a knife and cut out large hunks of cheesiness out of it.

Does anyone have a set of guidelines for un-cheesing published D&D adventures?

This thread assumes you believe aspects of D&D are cheesy, and published adventures need some level of changing. (If you don't agree, don't respond. This is not intended to be a debate about whether D&D is cheesy, or even specifically what is cheesy. I am not saying any specific way to play D&D is wrong. )

Here are some ideas I've considered:

- Replace every other magic item listed with mundane items/valuables. This reduces the overall abundance of magic in the game. Careful consideration needs to be made in each case, because some modules are written with the intent that some of the items will be useful to the players later in the adventure.
- Replace renaissance technology with medieval technology. Rapiers become short sword, hand crossbows become short bows, etc.
- Replaced any exotic weapons (spiked chains included!) with the closest non-exotic fit for the milieu. (With only a few exceptions, I think spiked chains are pure cheese.)
- Wherever feasible, replace alchemical items with mundane items. Tindertwigs become bundles of oiled torches, or bullseye lanterns and spare oil flasks, etc. Again care is needed to take into account specific assumptions in the module, such as creature tactics.
- Replace any templated creature that seems pointless or over-the-top (i.e. a pack of fiendish werebadgers on a wandering monster table) with more reasonable creatures of equivalent CR.
- Personally, I think the default economic system is way out of whack. I like to replace all references to "gp" with "sp" in all rules used, which returns a feel of value to gold pieces. I would prefer some easy way to redo the whole wealth-by-level system so that it doesn't rise so quickly... and possibly unhooking prices from magic items.
- Replacing magic traps with believable mundane ones, wherever appropriate and/or possible.

What I would love is to have a set of variants just like those presented in Unearthed Arcana, except all focused on converting "standard D&D" to "slightly more mundane D&D." Anyone got any ideas?

 

[Vrecknidj]

Sadly, I think the best way to do this is to do what you describe--convert everything you want to use into stuff that's appropriate for the CFL (Cheese Factor Level), , of your campaign.

Dave

 

[Toben the Many]

Use the d20 Modern System for your D&D.

Problem solved.

 

[Odhanan]

What about scaling monsters and opponents though? Monsters of D&D assume a certain wealth level and access to this or that type of weapons, armor, scrolls, potions and whatnot.

You could go with Iron Heroes if you're willing to go all the way to make it a game where magic items are rare for the same type of heroic action.

 

[Destil]

Your PCs may need to be more heroic to make up for the lack of magic or you'll need to customize the encounters to such a level that by the 3rd or 4th adventure there will be little point to running the path. If you have a problem with the 13.3 encounters per level guideline too you'll need to pad out the adventure path to allow advancement at the level you need. Doing so also lets you spread out magic items a bit more thinly (half XP, half magic items and run about as many side adventures as path adventurers, for instance).

As far as wealth by level, you need to get away from the magic items = GP rules. If you're also set on going to a SP standard the best way to go is make both gold and magic too valuable to be a commodity. Magic can be bought with gold. But gold itself should be very rare (this way you control both magic and money), maybe 1 GP is worth 100 sp (you could also reintroduce eletcrium if you want some older edition throwbacks and so PCs could have some more portable wealth, worth 10 SP but heavily leaning towards silver over gold in alloy). Magic items have their standard GP value, nonmagical items have their GP value in SP instead. Spell components are usually reduced to SP costs (identify requires a 100 SP or 1 GP pearl), so should spell scribing costs (and most likely consumable items like potions and scrolls).

 

[xnosipjpqmhd]

Your PCs may need to be more heroic to make up for the lack of magic or you'll need to customize the encounters to such a level that by the 3rd or 4th adventure there will be little point to running the path.

Well, I was thinking that replacing only 50% of the magic in the game wouldn't have too much of a long-term impact, since I can't imagine PCs lugging around ALL of the magic items they end up with at the end of these modules. I would have figured about half would get sold for profit anyway, and since I think ye olde magic item shoppe is silly (but perhaps a necessary evil) I figured I'd cut out the middle man?

If you have a problem with the 13.3 encounters per level guideline too you'll need to pad out the adventure path to allow advancement at the level you need.

Yes, it's not an official part of my anti-cheese rant, but I don't use the XP-for-killing-stuff rules. So I tend to crop out pointless, repetitive encounters anyway... by the time the PCs have encountered their third set of 4 hobgoblins in sequentially numbered rooms, its rather ho-hum.

Magic items have their standard GP value, nonmagical items have their GP value in SP instead. Spell components are usually reduced to SP costs (identify requires a 100 SP or 1 GP pearl), so should spell scribing costs (and most likely consumable items like potions and scrolls).

I do like this guideline. Worth considering!

 

[xnosipjpqmhd]

Use the d20 Modern System for your D&D. Problem solved.

Is there a set of guidelines for how to convert D&D adventures to use d20 Modern?

 

[xnosipjpqmhd]

...convert everything you want to use into stuff that's appropriate for the CFL (Cheese Factor Level)...

I just wish published adventures had the CFL clearly printed on the cover, along with Scaling the Adventure sidebars for campaigns with lower (or god-forbid higher) CFLs.

 

[IceFractal]

d20 Fantasy has pretty much what you're looking for - d20 system, fantasy, but either no or much more limited magic.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

The problem is knowing what "cheese" is. What you think is cheese may not seem so to me, and vice versa. Personally, my own definition of cheese is a setting that severely limits magic when using D&D in order to be more "realistic." In my opinion, in a game which is pretty much based upon magic and monsters, realism=cheese. For that matter, any attempt at "realism" in a RPG is kinda silly, in my opinion. I play RPGs for escapism, not historical simulation. If I want realism, I'll take a walk.